Converting existing system to surety

Support
34

finally getting back to this project

how could you tell this? is that a 345 mhz receiver mounted above the main panel? is it relaying the information from the wireless sensors to the main panel, since the landline is connected to the main panel?

these are the wireless D/W sensors. are you able to tell the make and model?

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13024×4032 3.61 MB
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23024×4032 3.14 MB

it turns out there are more of them than i had originally known, so i may want to continue using them - i would be able to enroll them with the 345 mhz IQ2+ panel, right?

just to confirm - to replace the current setup with a power G translator for use with an IQ2+, i would remove the entire current can from the wall and mount the power G translator in its place. terminals 8-17 would transfer over to six zones of the power G translator. zones 5 and 6 are IR (I believe) beams that function like tripwires - i assume these are powered off the aux power terminals 4 and 5 and would be transferred to the aux power terminals of the power G translator? nothing currently wired to terminals 6 and 7 or 21-25 would be used in the new system? would the smoke detectors in zone 1 (terminal 8 and 9) simply transfer over to any one of the power G translator zones?

would it be possible to use some of the existing wiring to power the IQ2+ panel at the location of one of the existing keypads via the auxiliary power terminals of the power G translator?

35

how could you tell this? is that a 345 mhz receiver mounted above the main panel?

If you have a Honeywell panel installed, it is likely that any wireless sensors paired with it operate on the 345MHz frequency, which is what all Honeywell brand 5800 series wireless sensors communicate on.

Based on the picture, that brown sensor appears to be a Honeywell brand 5816WMBR door window contact which communicates on the 345Mhz frequency.

it turns out there are more of them than i had originally known, so i may want to continue using them - i would be able to enroll them with the 345 mhz IQ2+ panel, right?

So long as you have the Qolsys IQ Panel 2+ (2GIG & Honeywell 345MHz) QS9201-5208-840. This version of the Qolsys panel has a 345Mhz radio and a DSC PowerG radio installed. It would not work with Qolsys/GE 319.5MHz sensors nor would it work with newer 2GIG eSeries 345MHz sensors.

Newer Qolsys panel purchases should have the 7vDC transformer.

just to confirm - to replace the current setup with a power G translator for use with an IQ2+, i would remove the entire current can from the wall and mount the power G translator in its place.

If that works best for your layout, you can, but you can leave the old panel in place as well since your just transferring existing wiring to the PowerG PG9WLSHW8

… i assume these are powered off the aux power terminals 4 and 5 and would be transferred to the aux power terminals of the power G translator?

From the manual

Aux 1 terminal is used for powering intrusion sensors, like Motion detectors.
Aux 2 terminal powers life safety devices (Smoke, Heat, CO)

would it be possible to use some of the existing wiring to power the IQ2+ panel at the location of one of the existing keypads via the auxiliary power terminals of the power G translator?

The Qolsys IQ Panel 2 would need to be powered off of its own included transformer. Should the included cabling be insufficient, you can use the following:

  • 5.5vDC Transformer: Use 18AWG wire
    no longer than 25ft to ensure sufficient
    power is received at the panel.

  • 7vDC Transformer: Use 18AWG wire no
    longer than 100ft to ensure sufficient
    power is received at the panel.

36

how is the 5816WMBR enrolled into the IQ2+? I can’t seem to find an installation manual. any reason I wouldn’t want to continue using these sensors, or are they typically reliable?

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Its learned in like any Door Window contact through Auto Learn Putting a 345MHz compatible IQP2+ into Auto Learn mode then tripping the sensor should automatically populate values. Loop 2 would be selected for the internal reed switch (magnet).

5800 series Honeywell wireless sensors are reliable and have been in use for many years. The only real reason to replace them would be if they aren’t functioning or if you are looking to upgrade to an encrypted sensor, like PowerG.

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zone 1 (see photo in post #30) is wired. however, the system currently has honeywell 5808W3s. i assume these aren’t related? what could the wiring in zone 1 be for? i’m not aware of any other smoke detectors in the current system…

would i be able to use the 5808W3s with the 345mhz IQ2+?

does the First Alert 148 comprise both panels in the photo in post #4, or just the larger of the two? if the latter, what is the model of the smaller of the two panels which appears to be the receiver for the wireless sensors?

39

zone 1 (see photo in post #30) is wired. however, the system currently has honeywell 5808W3s. i assume these aren’t related? what could the wiring in zone 1 be for? i’m not aware of any other smoke detectors in the current system…

Is that a zone currently learned into a Surety account or is this a separate system?

I wouldn’t be able to say for sure what a wire would be connected to locally. You’ll need to check for labeling/sensor zone list written on documentation, or test zones.

I can tell you the resistor is not wired properly for a smoke detector, so it is likely not a smoke circuit.

No, wireless detectors would be unrelated to a wired zone.

would i be able to use the 5808W3s with the 345mhz IQ2+?

Yes, that model is compatible. You can view a compatible sensors list here (see the 345 section.)

does the First Alert 148 comprise both panels in the photo in post #4, or just the larger of the two? if the latter, what is the model of the smaller of the two panels which appears to be the receiver for the wireless sensors?

The main panel is the lower, larger board.

The upper smaller one is a 5881 wireless receiver.

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It’s currently on a different system that I’m converting to surety. The written paperwork says it’s a fire zone. The only smoke detectors I see are the wireless ones I mentioned. The house also has a sprinkler system - could it be related to that? How would I best test this zone? Trying to figure out what to do with it when moving these zones to a HW16 or power G translator.

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It is possible it was originally a fire zone but was replaced. Smoke detectors have an expiration date and must be replaced. Yours may have been older and replaced with the 5808W3s.

Some sprinklers can be monitored, but I doubt they would be involved here. Trace the wires, if the sprinklers were involved there would be wires running to a flow valve on your water mains.

Is zone 1 programmed in the panel? Does the system function? Do the keypads chime and show sensor status? If so I would test the sensors in the home one by one to determine which zones are which. This will make it much easier to program the takeover module.

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I’ve been able to account for zones 2-6 by tripping all sensors I’m aware of in the system. I will check for wires at a water main flow valve. In the absence of those, is there any other way to try to identify what’s currently wired to zone 1?

Regarding the 5816s: when I activate the IQ2+ will I need to unenroll them from the current system prior to enrolling into the IQ2+? I want to keep the current system running (concurrently with the IQ2+) until I install the takeover module.

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If the installer did not accurately label or if changes have been made on the system since installation you are left with trial and error.

If it was labeled as a wired fire zone, but you have wireless smoke detectors, it is possible the zone was simply removed.

If you can access programming you can check if zone 1 is even enabled and what type it is programmed as. However, if you have tested all known sensors and 1 is unaccounted for, I would expect it was simply replaced by wireless smokes.

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Regarding the 5816s: when I activate the IQ2+ will I need to unenroll them from the current system prior to enrolling into the IQ2+? I want to keep the current system running (concurrently with the IQ2+) until I install the takeover module.

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No. You do not need to remove 345 Mhz sensors. Those sensors just broadcast status changes, they do not use two way communication and do not link to a specific system. The panel is programmed to listen to the TXIDs of the specific sensors.

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Ok. So if one of them opens it will cause both systems to alarm if enrolled in both?

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If both systems are armed, yes. The sensor will report to any panel listening for it.

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it turns out i was mistaken - there actually are two wired smoke alarms in the system, as in the photos below. the red and black wires appear to correspond to the red and black wires in zone 1 of the FA148.

how do i transfer those wires to the PG9WLSHW8? is a resistor required? why is there a resistor at one of the alarms, and should it be there? how are these smoke alarms powered?

IMG_1190
IMG_11903024×4032 2.78 MB
IMG_1191
IMG_11913024×4032 2.61 MB

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That’s a resistor correctly placed at the end of the line for a normally open zone type like the Smoke detector, yes it should be there. Two wire smoke detectors are powered across the two wires.

First thing is first though, check the installed or replaced by date. Those are likely past the replace by date. Smoke detectors have a hard end of life because the sensing element breaks down.

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Actually I meant to mention there is no expiration date on either of these. To be safe I will probably just replace. Do you have a recommendation for a replacement model? Would they be wired in the same way? And then wired into one of the zones of the power g translator?

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Yep, check page 18 and 19 in the manual of the wired translator for wiring instructions and a list of compatible models. Do not mix and match models. Use two of the same model and you should be good.

See the relevant info below:

Screenshot 2021-03-10 115107
Screenshot 2021-03-10 115107773×625 87 KB

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Any advice choosing amongst those compatible detectors?

Once they are wired in how do I program into the IQ2+?

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No, I don’t have a specific recommendation among the detectors, just be sure to use two of the same model.

First enroll the PowerG HW translator into the panel (Advanced settings - Installation - devices - security devices - auto enroll) by pressing the tamper button and programming all zones.

To enable the PGM2 output, go into Advanced settings - Installation - Devices - Security Devices - Add Sensor, Manually enter the PowerG HW Translators DL code and it will enable the PGM2 output for the 2 wire smoke detectors.