Happy Surety customer since 8/2017 when you helped me migrate my professionally installed hybrid Concord 4 system to Surety/ADC.
My CO detectors (4 around the house, 3 zones) started beeping a couple of days ago with the amber light, and it seems they are all coming up on the 10-year EOL mark.
My detector zones are (fire and CO):
Sensor name Zone Reporting Type Physical Type
Basement Fire Alarm 8 Smoke/Heat Smoke/Heat
Basement Gas Detector 7 Carbon Monoxide CO
Garage Gas Detector 2 Carbon Monoxide CO
Second Floor Fire 16 Smoke/Heat Smoke/Heat
Second Floor Gas 14 Carbon Monoxide CO
Smoke First Floor 15 Smoke/Heat Smoke/Heat
When the first unit beeped a few days ago, we pressed the hush button to kill the sound, and a second unit beeped tonight and I removed it from the wall and wiring. (Please see photos.)
It looks like I need to replace the CO detectors, and I’d appreciate your guidance on the following questions.
Is there a way to “reset” them to ignore the 10-year warning and keep using it?
If not, what are my options?
a) Replace with the same model: In this case, do I simply reconnect the four wires without having to reprogram the Concord 4 panel?
b) Is there a more cost-effective or more convenient option? In a previous support thread (when I had questions about the CO detector going off), you suggested a wireless option. Can you tell me more about it? (Model, cost, how to program it into the panel.)
c) Are there Z-wave options that can connect to the ADC LTE module, rather than to the Interlogix panel? Is this a bad idea?
d) I suspect my smoke detectors will soon reach EOL as well (they were all installed at the same time with the alarm system). Would now be a good time to replace smoke and CO detectors with combination detectors? (I can reduce the number of devices to maintain…)
I would suggest to get a wireless one which is 319.5 mhz frequency that supports the concord and the iq panel if you wanted to upgrade, but Interlogix has been out of business since 2019 so I would suggest to find them online somewhere.
CO detectors are heavily regulated. Any standard 12V, 4-wire CO detector should work. I don’t think there would be any reprogramming, just hook up the normally-open (NO) contact output to the panel’s input terminal. Testing it would be important of course.
No.
Qolsys S-Line sensors transmit unencrypted 319.5 signals in addition to encrypted so you can use them with both Concord panels and IQ Panels. But only the IQ Panel will utilize the encrypted signal.
Is there a way to “reset” them to ignore the 10-year warning and keep using it?
No, CO and smoke detectors degrade and lose sensitivity over time. They are expired and must be replaced once they reach the manufacturer stated end of life.
Replace with the same model: In this case, do I simply reconnect the four wires without having to reprogram the Concord 4 panel?
This would be the easiest solution. Replace with the same or similar 12VDC CO detector. No programming would be needed.
Is there a more cost-effective or more convenient option?
Wireless detectors are available and are easy to install but usually cost a bit more. The IQ CO Detector here would be an option.
Are there Z-wave options that can connect to the ADC LTE module, rather than to the Interlogix panel? Is this a bad idea?
No. Z-wave sensors are not compatible and cannot be monitored. Z-wave is used for automation devices like lights and locks only.
Would now be a good time to replace smoke and CO detectors
Check the date on the smoke detectors. What is the EOL date printed on them ?
The original GE/Interlogix model is discontinued. If I find old stock with an old mfr date, does that mean the expected lifespan is that much shorter?
Are there hardwired 12VCD CO detectors that are still in production? Would something like this be “current” with another 10 years of life left?
Given the number of CO and smoke detectors at EOL I need to replace, I’m looking for the lowest cost option. Wireless detectors seem to have shorter lifespan (or at least batteries need replacement?). Eventually, when my Concord panel dies (or if the ADC LTE module dies), I will look into upgrading to IQ4 (with HW module) to keep using my wired and wireless sensors. So until then, I figured I’ll keep the current setup going. I would love to have the modern interface of the Qolsys system (with integrated Z-wave as well), but now is just not the right time for me.
I looked at one and the EOL is 14103. So my fire and CO detectors are all at 10-year mark now and need to be replaced.
Can you suggest a good replacement 2-wire smoke detector to swap in with the least complications?
Will Honeywell and DSC brands work with the Concord panel? Do all detectors in the same zone have to be the same model?
Should I stay away from old stock discontinued models? (due to reduced lifespan)
I have some additional general questions when replacing the detectors.
Should I be concerned about resistors? I keep seeing people mentioning how it should be installed on the last device in the zone. If I run into one in the old devices, do I simply move it to the new detector and install it exactly the same?
Is it ok to simply remove the old detectors and put new ones in without cutting power to the panel (AC and backup battery)?
Yes, as long as it is a new stock item you should be fine.
Can you suggest a good replacement 2-wire smoke detector to swap in with the least complications? Will Honeywell and DSC brands work with the Concord panel? Do all detectors in the same zone have to be the same model?
Any 2 wire 12VDC smoke detector should work. Yes, all should be the same exact model on the circuit.
I usually default to recommending the System Sensor 2W-B, but any should work.
Should I stay away from old stock discontinued models? (due to reduced lifespan)
The expiration date is there because the sensing element loses sensitivity over time, regardless of whether it has been in use or not. It is based on the manufacture date, so old stock on life safety sensors, I would avoid.
Should I be concerned about resistors? I keep seeing people mentioning how it should be installed on the last device in the zone. If I run into one in the old devices, do I simply move it to the new detector and install it exactly the same?
The resistor must be there based on the panel instructions. The alarm panel is looking for a specific resistance at rest. Life safety sensors are typically normally open, and require the resistor wired at the end of the circuit in parallel to supervise the circuit and monitor for breaks or tampers.
You can reuse the existing resistor for that 2-wire detector circuit and install it the same way with the new detectors.
Is it ok to simply remove the old detectors and put new ones in without cutting power to the panel (AC and backup battery)?
No. Power down the panel before making wiring changes and adding/removing powered devices like the smoke detectors and CO detectors.
Thanks. I’m planning to count the exact number of smoke and CO detectors around the house and will replace them.
One curious situation came up, and I’d like to ask you about it. As I said above, I removed one of the CO detectors that was chirping its EOL status. After that, I’m able to arm the system to “stay” (not away) by selecting “force bypass” in the ADC app.
I see in the Concord 4 manual that CO and smoke (life safety) detectors cannot be bypassed. If I’m able to bypass my open CO detector, what could that mean?
You cannot selectively bypass smoke detectors, but force bypass applies to trouble conditions. CO detectors do not report open as a status.
On the Interlogix Concord 4 panel, it is possible to bypass an open contact sensor or any sensor with a trouble condition (e.g., tamper, low battery, offline, etc.) when arming a system from the website or app using force bypass.
I was taking inventory of all the CO and smoke detectors around my house, and realized there are some heat detectors mixed in with smoke detectors. Specifically, I found the 281B-PL 135F heat detectors installed in the laundry, basement mechanical room, and in the garage.
Is it normal to see heat detectors (and not CO detectors) in these rooms?
Is it common for these heat detectors to be programmed into the same alarm zones with CO detectors? (I’m assuming, from the zone naming.)
The 281B-PL looks like it’s discontinued. Is there an Interlogix Concord 4 compatible heat detector you recommend? A quick search found something like the System Sensor 5601P. Would this be an exact replacement for the (I assume, expired) 281B-PL heat detector?
As with the CO detectors, can I assume no programming would be needed after swapping in the new heat detectors?
Heat detectors should not be part of a CO circuit. They might be part of a smoke detector circuit, heat detectors are fire detection devices and would have the same response requirements as smoke detectors.
It is expected that those locations you mentioned would have a heat detector instead of a smoke detector. Those rooms have a higher chance for false smoke alarm activation.
Are you certain those heat detectors are connected? I wouldn’t recommend going by location names, I would not expect to see a CO and a heat detector on the same zone.
Is there an Interlogix Concord 4 compatible heat detector you recommend? A quick search found something like the System Sensor 5601P. Would this be an exact replacement for the (I assume, expired) 281B-PL heat detector?
Interlogix does not make alarm products anymore and any devices sold would be old stock. I would recommend other models. The one you mentioned looks like it would be a good replacement I believe.
As with the CO detectors, can I assume no programming would be needed after swapping in the new heat detectors?
If they are programmed into the panel currently, no, you should be able to replace them all and it looks like those would have the same circuit characteristics and be a drop in replacement.
Power the system off before removing or adding any powered sensors.
Just to be sure, the old 281B-PL heat detectors are single-circuit models (not dual-circuit), is that correct? Thank you.
What they are referencing with dual circuit I believe is the ability to connect a separate aux device to be monitored on each CO. The 281B-PL do not have that ability to my knowledge, so yes, single circuit.
I replaced 3 smoke detectors and 1 heat detector that are in the same fire zone, and want to ask if I wired them correctly.
Both the new and old heat detector models have 2 terminals, so I wired the new one exactly the same as the old (yellow/red on one and green/black on the other terminal).
The new smoke detector (2W-B), however, has 2 positive terminals, one for incoming and a second for outgoing. The old detector only had 1 positive and 1 negative.
Because I wasn’t sure of the order of the devices in the zone (1 heat and 3 smoke) from the panel, I ended up putting both (+) wires on the first positive terminal on each smoke device and did not utilize the second (outgoing) positive terminal. I thought at least I would be replicating the old wiring.
The 2W-B smoke devices are all blinking green every 5 seconds indicating normal status. Is the failure to wire them using the second positive terminal going to be a problem under certain scenarios?
Always install per manufacturer installation manual for the device. Positive out should be wired to the next in series. Here is the wiring diagram from the manual:
Hi - Yes, I understand the wiring diagram per mfr… I just don’t know the order in which the detectors are wired (starting from the panel), so I was wondering if I would at least retain the main functionality of the devices (i.e., detecting smoke and triggering fire alarm for the zone) if I wired only using the Positive in on each device.
If I lose a functionality (for example, the ability to signal trouble when a device is removed in the series) due to the wrong wiring, I can live with that, I think…
I can’t speak to the engineering side of the sensor, and I do not have one to try and recreate the scenario.
I reached out to System Sensor support and their representatives attempted to look into it internally. Their response, while I understand is not desirable, is that they cannot support wiring that goes against instructions.
They spent some time looking for any details that they could share but ultimately said they weren’t able to elaborate on the implications of incorrect wiring since it is not covered anywhere in documentation. System Sensor support reps stated to only install per the manual.
My guess is that it may be related to the EZ Loop testing for i3 control panels, (not relevant here) and/or it might have implications for trouble sensing. I wouldn’t expect it to impact circuit reset but I cannot say that with 100% certainty.
I would recommend placing your account on test mode with the monitoring station and test setting one off to ensure it resets successfully.
Thanks for looking into this with the mfr directly!
I suspect it has to do with trouble sensing, but based on what you’re saying, I think it might be worth my time testing for continuity between the devices and the panel to establish the order of the devices and wire them properly.
