I am converting a built in hardwired system that was previously set up through Guardian. The wires are all run through the house for the 1 motion detector, 3 door sensors, and 3 smoke detectors. I have the Qolsys IQ Panel 2, the Qolsys Hardwire 8-S (no one told me the 16-S could power the motion detector, but the 8-S cannot so I accidentally bought the 8-S), and a number of additional wireless motion detectors, glass break sensors, and door/window sensors which are compatible with the Qolsys panel.
Right now I’m stuck on converting the existing wired sensors. I was able to get 2 of the 3 doors to work no problem. But one of the doors will not work no matter what I try. However, I had an electrician over, and we measured the voltage when this particular door opens and closes, and the resting voltage is different enough that it should be tripping. In fact, the difference in voltage when the door is opened or closed is in between the 2 doors that are working, so that’s not the problem.
I’ve tried using multiple different ports on the 8-S, and nothing has worked. The electrician and I confirmed there’s no break in the wires from our previous test measuring the voltage.
For what it’s worth, I had this door connected to the Qolsys IQ Panel 2 hours before but it was giving an error message every time the door opened. I had learned it into the system incorrectly (not as a hardwire to wireless converter signal) so each time the door opened it said it was being tampered with. I reset the system through the Qolsys panel, and then when I went to learn it the first 2 doors went in no problem. This time around though, the 3rd door sensor would not even light up on the 8-S panel where the wires connect.
I need some ideas on how to possibly fix this and begin using the system. I’ve paid for my first month of monitoring, but haven’t actually started to use the system or configure things with SuretyDIY. If I can’t solve this, I’m going to cancel my subscription until I can figure out how to fix it.
I had an electrician over, and we measured the voltage when this particular door opens and closes, and the resting voltage is different enough that it should be tripping. In fact, the difference in voltage when the door is opened or closed is in between the 2 doors that are working, so that’s not the problem.
Measuring voltage on a sensor circuit will not be helpful in troubleshooting. Sensor circuits use resistance to determine if the circuit is open or shut, and with the Qolsys IQ Hardwire 8 or 16, specific resistance values are needed.
The first thing to do would be to verify whether or not the sensor circuit that is malfunctioning has between 1Kohm and 10Kohm resistance. It must in order to work with the Hardwire 8.
What is the resistance between the two wires for that circuit?
Next, keep in mind that while the Hardwire 8 accepts between 1 and 10 kohms, it measures and sets the resistance for each circuit independently when they are learned in. So in other words, if zone 3 has 3kohms, the circuit after being learned in will only and always look for that value (to a degree of error) at rest.
When learning in the zone, the door circuit, with proper resistance, must be wired up. You cannot swap the zones around after the fact.
Once we know the resistance on the circuit, you’ll want to reset the memory on the Hardwire 8 and relearn the zones one at a time. (You cannot reset individual zones) The installation guide can be found here.
For what it’s worth, I had this door connected to the Qolsys IQ Panel 2 hours before but it was giving an error message every time the door opened. I had learned it into the system incorrectly (not as a hardwire to wireless converter signal) so each time the door opened it said it was being tampered with.
When the Qolsys panel shows a Hardwire 8 Zone as tampered, this means the resistance value is off.
This video shows installation of the Hardwire 16. The Hardwire 8 steps are identical for zones.
Individual zones on the translator should be learned in as their appropriate zone type per the video above (Door/Window, for example, not Hardwire Translator.) The Hardwire Translator zone type is just for supervision purposes for the translator itself.
I know one side of the circuit (don’t recall if it was when open or closed) was 2.9ohms. Both open and closed resistance values were in between the other resistance values of the other 2 doors.
At this point, would you recommend I just start over and follow the installation guide exactly as laid out? Are there instructions on how to factory reset both the Qolsys IQ Panel 2 and the Hardwire 8-S (or 16-S, since they function the same apparently)?
The cheat sheet explains how to clear the memory of the 8-S:
How to Clear the Memory: Power down the unit by unplugging the battery leads and the power supply. Hold down “Memory Reset” for 3 seconds
while re-applying power to the device. Processor, RF Xmit and EOL Cal LED’s will begin to flash indicating that the module has been reset.
Any instruction on resetting the Qolsys IQ Panel 2 would be greatly appreciated. Or should I just remove the existing sensors without going all the way to factory reset?
Last question: An installation video I found of the Qolsys IQP2 (https://youtu.be/zlCr2kp0VD8?t=1m51s) showed the antenna from the unit being hidden in the wall. Will the antenna be negatively impacted by electrical wires running nearby or insulation and framing/drywall? Is this the antenna that is picking up the signal from the wireless sensors and the hardwire 8-S, or the one that calls out to the cell tower when WiFi isn’t available?
I know one side of the circuit (don’t recall if it was when open or closed) was 2.9ohms. Both open and closed resistance values were in between the other resistance values of the other 2 doors.
Do you mean 2.9Kohms? The open resistance value should be infinite for all normally closed sensors. The circuit is completely broken when the sensor is open. Your multimeter manual will express how this will be shown, but if you switch it to measure resistance and just hold the leads apart and not touch anything, that is the reading you should see when a door is open.
When closed, you should see the resistance of the circuit.
You would not need to factory reset the Qolsys IQ Panel 2, just reset the Hardwire 8. The process for resetting the Hardwire 8 is found in the manual:
“How to Clear the Memory: Power down the unit by unplugging the battery leads and the power supply. Hold down “Memory Reset” for 3 seconds while re-applying power to the device. Processor, RF Xmit and EOL Cal LED’s will begin to flash indicating that the module has been reset.”
The Hardwire zones can be manually deleted in the alarm panel by going to Settings - Advanced Settings - Installation - Devices - Security Sensors - Delete Sensor.
I would advise resetting the Hardwire yes, it sounds like the problem is with resistance values on the one door circuit.
Note if you see 2.9 ohm or kohm when the door is open, you have a short on that circuit where the two wires connect before the sensor.
Will the antenna be negatively impacted by electrical wires running nearby or insulation and framing/drywall? Is this the antenna that is picking up the signal from the wireless sensors and the hardwire 8-S, or the one that calls out to the cell tower when WiFi isn’t available?
Electrical wiring within a few inches can pose trouble, but you should not see an issue with any non-metal building materials.
Okay, so it seems to be working now. I restarted from scratch and followed the exact instructions. I actually watched that video 2 weeks ago when I first tried, and I followed them word for word. Here is what I’ve determined, though I still have more questions than answers at this point.
I used my multimeter to test the door. It did exactly as you said, Jason. When the door was open, it showed the same 0.L that the meter shows when I had it connected to nothing (air). However, when the door closed, it jumped to over 2.0 kOhm and settled at 1.98 kOhm, every single time. So the wiring seems to be fine.
After installing both of the door sensors and learning them in just fine, and still being baffled about the 3rd door, I figured I would reverse the wires just because I had no other options and was at a loss. So rather than the black wire with the resistor connected to it being on the top, I put that one on bottom (opposite of the other 2 learned door sensors). Lo and behold, it worked. And it continues to work, without throwing any tamper alerts. (I’ll post this image in my next post, so you can see what I mean.
Questions:
The 16-S video shows him tripping the tamper nodes by touching them with a needle nose plier. I tried that, but my tamper doesn’t look the same (see Tamper Zone image attached). Mine appears to be soldered and covered. I was unable to trip it using needle nose pliers or wire (not that one should work better than the other, but I tried both anyways). Therefore, without tripping the tamper, I didn’t learn a Hardwire Translator. My IQ Panel seems to be working fine, but I only have the 3 door sensors learned currently. I’ll be adding some motion sensors, glass break detector, and maybe some more window sensors.
The zone for the 3rd and troublesome door was not staying lit like the others were after learning it and while still in EOL Learn mode. I’ve confirmed it still works though after ending EOL Learn mode. I’ve opened all 3 doors multiple times and the chimes go off and alert me to the door opening, and there are no issues or tamper alerts.
The 16-S shows all of the zones staying lit after ending EOL Learn mode. The 8-S (or my 8-S) does not show any zones lit after ending EOL Learn mode. (next post will contain this image)
I previously had the built in IQ Panel 2 glass break sensor learned in. How do I learn that in again? I lost it when I removed all existing sensors.
I’m attaching the image which I referenced in statement 2 (showing the “reversed” wiring working), and the one I also referenced in Question 3 (my zones not lighting up after ending EOL Learn mode).
I didn’t learn a Hardwire Translator. My IQ Panel seems to be working fine, but I only have the 3 door sensors learned currently. I’ll be adding some motion sensors, glass break detector, and maybe some more window sensors.
Learning in the Hardwire itself is not necessary for sensor function. It just allows supervision of the Hardwire 8 itself.
still being baffled about the 3rd door, I figured I would reverse the wires just because I had no other options and was at a loss. So rather than the black wire with the resistor connected to it being on the top, I put that one on bottom (opposite of the other 2 learned door sensors). Lo and behold, it worked. And it continues to work, without throwing any tamper alerts. (I’ll post this image in my next post, so you can see what I mean.
I see what you mean in the photos, but the terminal orientation those two wires are connected to does not affect the functionality. The terminals will read the same resistance either way.
One thing that might affect it though is if one of the wires was loose or if it wasn’t stripped back far enough and making solid contact with the metal of the terminal. Swapping it to the other terminal may have inadvertently fixed such an issue.
The 16-S shows all of the zones staying lit after ending EOL Learn mode. The 8-S (or my 8-S) does not show any zones lit after ending EOL Learn mode. (next post will contain this image)
To clarify - those will be lit when the zone is open. If closed the lights will stay off.
I previously had the built in IQ Panel 2 glass break sensor learned in. How do I learn that in again? I lost it when I removed all existing sensors.
This is enabled and disabled in Settings - Advanced Settings - Installation - Installer Settings. Scroll down and check the box next to Panel Glass Break.
Learning in the Hardwire itself is not necessary for sensor function. It just allows supervision of the Hardwire 8 itself.
When you say supervision, that means if someone were tampering with the Hardwire 8 it would trigger an alarm? I may actually prefer it to be unsupervised, since the hardwire 8 is inside the house and there's no way to access it without triggering at least 1 other alarm. Are there any advantages to monitoring it that I'm missing? Can you describe how to monitor it if I wish to do so?
I see what you mean in the photos, but the terminal orientation those two wires are connected to does not affect the functionality. The terminals will read the same resistance either way.
One thing that might affect it though is if one of the wires was loose or if it wasn’t stripped back far enough and making solid contact with the metal of the terminal. Swapping it to the other terminal may have inadvertently fixed such an issue.
That would be very coincidental, but I can’t rule it out. Given that we tried multiple zones, on multiple occasions, it seems odd that the one time I decide to reverse it I inadvertently fixed a connection issue. But that might explain why it worked once, and then didn’t work after about 5 more attempts in different zones, and then worked again. Regardless, it’s working so I’m happy!
When you say supervision, that means if someone were tampering with the Hardwire 8 it would trigger an alarm? I may actually prefer it to be unsupervised, since the hardwire 8 is inside the house and there’s no way to access it without triggering at least 1 other alarm. Are there any advantages to monitoring it that I’m missing? Can you describe how to monitor it if I wish to do so?
Interesting, we do not stock the Hardwire 8-S, but it does not have tamper terminals it appears from your photo. There are also no instructions in the manual regarding learning it into the panel. Looks like it may not support supervision like the Hardwire 16-S. We’ll check with Qolsys to verify.
My wife said that the door opening chimes were going off sporadically throughout the day. She was the only one home, and all the doors were locked. She said it probably happened around 15 times. Is there a way to see a log of which doors were opened and when, so that I can see which door is causing it?
I checked the panel, and did notice 4 alerts. All 4 indicated doors being tampered. But I did not receive a tamper alert for any of the times that I opened one of the doors tonight. I’m confused as to why I’m getting tamper alerts sporadically, and why the chimes are going off randomly as well. How do I troubleshoot this?
Attached is an image of the tamper alerts from today, but I’m not sure if they coincided with the random door chimes.
Having experienced the random, unprovoked chimes myself, the Messages/Alerts section of the IQ Panel 2 seem to indicate exactly when they’re happening. It shows the Front Door alarm primarily (though the backdoor once) with a tamper notification, always with a (2) after it (except the backdoor, which just had a (1) after it). How do I stop this. The random chimes are terribly annoying.
Having experienced the random, unprovoked chimes myself, the Messages/Alerts section of the IQ Panel 2 seem to indicate exactly when they’re happening. It shows the Front Door alarm primarily (though the backdoor once) with a tamper notification, always with a (2) after it (except the backdoor, which just had a (1) after it). How do I stop this. The random chimes are terribly annoying.
(1) and (2) are just the zone numbers for those sensors.
So, just to clarify, you’re saying the door reported open/close by itself as well as tamper alerts?
The presence of tampers typically indicate resistance is the issue. Often if you have a sensor which is opening intermittently you have a loose wire. Since you’ve done a lot of work at the Hardwire 8 end, you would first want to check the sensors themselves. Are the wired sensors surface contacts? Or are they recessed sensors?
If you didn’t previously, it is always best to cut off old exposed wire and strip back the sheath to connect fresh wire to terminals on the Hardwire 8.
I do see an enormous amount of open/close on the front door. Could you post a photo of the sensor and magnet as they are lined up in a closed position?
So I think I’ve figured out the front door, which is having the majority of the tamper alerts. The magnet is vertically aligned with the sensor, but not horizontally. It’s barely overlapping. Measuring from both the door and the doorjam, which are flush/aligned with one another when closed, the magnet is 1/4" in, while the sensor is 7/8" inset. Similar issue with the garage interior door. The backdoor doesn’t seem to be quite as misaligned, but has a different magnet type, likely due to the fact that it’s a sliding door. Pictures of each are attached.
What’s the best way to fix this? In some instances, I could move the magnets forward a bit so they’re closer, though they still won’t align completely. Are there stronger flush mount magnets that can be used which would be fine with the gaps I have?
This was previously a Guardian system, which to my knowledge, worked just fine. But I should have known better than to assume their sensors and magnets would have been aligned well during installation.
So I think I’ve figured out the front door, which is having the majority of the tamper alerts. The magnet is vertically aligned with the sensor, but not horizontally. It’s barely overlapping.
Severely misaligned magnets can definitely cause operational problems. That’s a good catch.
What’s the best way to fix this? In some instances, I could move the magnets forward a bit so they’re closer, though they still won’t align completely. Are there stronger flush mount magnets that can be used which would be fine with the gaps I have?
The magnets in this case will be in the doors and the best resolution would be moving the magnet. Sometimes this is not possible or would be difficult to drill out and fill evenly due to the original poor placement.
I don’t typically recommend trying surface magnets for recessed sensors for a couple reasons. Primarily due to the fact that doors swell and shift over seasons and time. You may find one strong enough, but you would need to remove the current magnet and replug the drilled hole. If the other magnet is left it will deform the magnetic field. Often the magnet itself can be slipped out of its plastic housing.
Most often in situations where a recessed sensor was installed with a severe misalignment, I would recommend just adding a wireless sensor instead on that door. Qolsys has wireless recessed sensors if you want to keep it unseen.
Thanks Jason. Trying to repurpose the wired unit has ended up costing me a lot in time and money at this point. Adding wireless recessed sensors is definitely the easiest solution, and probably the best option at this point. Now I have a hardwired 8-s that’s totally useless.
