Cell connection

I have a Verizon cell unit lost connection at 3 am this morning ran test and could not acquire network is this a known issue at Adc?

Depends. Could be an issue with your local tower, or you may be in an area that is actively phasing out CDMA and refarming it to LTE.

What’s your signal strength (?/31)?

An option may be to go broadband dual cellular with the Bridge, if signal continues to degrade or drop.

If the communication failure is otherwise attributed to a periodic system test, see:

I have a go bridge and both have worked just fine when I try to do a cell rest it will not squire the network

What is the signal strength for the cell as shown on panel?

It is most likely a temporary tower issue, or Verizon is refarming the 3G in your area (which would mean your module will no longer work or will try to Roam)

Also… (spoiler) if you have the bridge… you can simply disable (and/or remove) the cell module and still have everything work just fine

Set Q24(0) disables cell failure trouble
Set Q25(0) disables cell failure reports

As far as I can see your cell module is communicating now. I just pinged it a few times via cellular and it replied immediately every time. Are you still having the problem running the cell phone test?

If you can cell test successfully now then it was probably just a temporary cell tower maintenance issue. That’s the beauty of the Go!Bridge and Alarm.com dual path - when one communication path goes down the other picks up the slack.

It’s true that the Go!Bridge will keep your system working when the cell module isn’t working but just to be clear I should point out that you can’t have a system that’s Go!Bridge-only without cellular. Alarm.com won’t let you create an account without a valid cell module.

Working now but the solve was I had to power down the panel remove and reseat the cell module and when I powered back up it worked just fine thanks for the assistance

can’t have a system that’s Go!Bridge-only without cellular. Alarm.com won’t let you create an account without a valid cell module.

My understanding is that once the ADC account is created with a valid cell module, and bridge is setup, you can then remove that cell module, and the system, with just the bridge, will work fine without it.

I can see this playing out in those cases were a customer has a valid activated 2G GSM AT&T/Tmobile cell (which are about to go offline nationwide and sunset), or where the customer has a Verizon 3G CDMA cell and the spectrum for those modules are refarmed (which is already happening).

Even the AT&T 3G HSPA modules are scheduled to be phased out/sunset in favor of the new standard LTE, what, within the next 5 years or so. I don’t think even the newer enhanced HSPA+ (which is currently replacing the older, slower HSPA) is compatible with the 3G modules (but I could be wrong).

And other 2GIG providers (like Uplink), will allow account creation without a valid cell as long as the bridge is installed. The bridge will work with all providers (unlike cellular modules) such as Uplink, Telguard, Alarm.com.

ADC is gonna have to rethink that policy if they plan to stay competitive. Within the next 5years or so, all the current cellular modules are gonna be obsolete, and most of their customers will be still 2GIG GoControl users. A $100 cell upgrade cost might just cause a mass exodus (especially for those with the bridge). WiFi/broadband monitoring/remote access is big and gaining traction, and in most cases is cheaper than cellular plans/monitoring service.


I think you’re right about the Go!Bridge working by itself once the account has been created although I’ve never tried doing it. I just need to be clear so people who read what you wrote don’t go trying to set up new systems without a cell module and then get mad at us when it doesn’t work.

I disagree with your opinion that CDMA modules will stop working in 2019. I think they will continue to work as M2M devices well into the 2020’s.

That’s an interesting conundrum. Personally for a monitored security system, I’d much prefer dual paths be available. For home control I don’t care that much although it would be nice to be able to control the Qolsys panel locally over wifi since it would be faster than any other solution.

What happens to the panels that can’t be upgraded, e.g. Qolsys, when the 3G is sunsetted?

I disagree with your opinion that CDMA modules will stop working in 2019. I think they will continue to work as M2M devices well into the 2020’s.

Well, according to Verizon, they started refarming the CDMA spectrum in 2014, and plan to complete by end of 2019. This would seem to indicate many areas, will go LTE only way before that (even M2M CDMA devices will not work on LTE only networks. MY area, for example is already LTE only, and CDMA is gone entirely… and I live a hop, skip, and a jump from Washington DC), and in those areas (much like the way AT&T/Tmobile did it with whole areas going offline overnight way before the official sunset date), those 3G CDMA cellular module will become problematic.

Since Verizon started VoLTE (voice over LTE) last year, they no longer require the CDMA/PCS spectrum for voice services. It is all LTE now. CDMA is dead weight to Verizon, and It is in their best interest to refarm and dump CDMA just as fast as they can upgrade the towers. They have to stay competitive, and the new standard is LTE/XLTE/VoLTE.

I remember back in 2012 everyone though the same thing about the 2G GSM/M2M cellular networks… what, wasn’t tmobile supposed to keep their 2G network up till 2021? We all see how that turned out. Tmobile 2G/EDGE is pretty much completely refarmed, and gone everywhere, and it’s what, still 6 years from the “official” sunset date? M2M 2G is dead, and within the next 4 1/2 years or so, HSPA and CDMA EVDO will be dead and gone also.

There is no way Verizon is gonna keep legacy CDMA/EVDO networks up just for M2M. They don’t make the money catering to M2M and I bet they don’t give a rat’s arse for M2M. The money is in XLTE, LTE and the new voice VoLTE (3G CDMA successor) networks, and the LTE hardware upgrades to use those services.

All the cellular mobile service providers are gonna upgrade their networks to the new standard, and jettison the obsolete equipment, or watch their competitors overtake them. I GAURANTEE Verizon isn’t about to let that happen. Say bye bye to CDMA.

Mike Haberman, Verizon Wireless' vice president of network performance, said the company isn't refarming PCS spectrum because it needs to. Rather, as Verizon sees 3G data usage across its PCS spectrum decline, it is repurposing that spectrum for 4G in order to stay ahead of the competition
The company doesn't have a timeline for refarming all its PCS spectrum to LTE, but it said it expects to operate its CDMA EVDO network (in the PCS band) through Dec 31, 2019. Haberman said moving into 2020 and beyond, it is possible Verizon will sell LTE-only devices.
What happens to the panels that can’t be upgraded, e.g. Qolsys, when the 3G is sunsetted?

J.P., When Verizon finally sunsets 3G CDMA then your Qolsys panel won’t communicate via cellular anymore. I believe that will be some time in the early to mid 2020’s. Qolsys is betting that you will want a newer, more advanced home automation control panel by then. If you don’t, like rive pointed out, you can still use your 3G panel as IP-only. There is also the possibility that Qolsys would offer a 4G adapter of some sort if you really wanted to continue using a nearly decade old home automation control panel in the early 2020’s.

Rive, Verizon has publicly committed to supporting 3G CDMA M2M devices until 2021. They have not even said it will be dead at that time, they have only said they can’t guarantee it will continue working past 2021. Their spokespeople have said they may continue supporting CDMA even after that for M2M devices. They just don’t know at this point.

You’re right, LTE is definitely the future but it’s not that easy to just cut off all these M2M devices. The alarm industry isn’t the only one that depends on 3G CDMA. There are tons of medical devices, ATM machines, etc… that have 3G CDMA radios. These industries lobby hard to prevent the cell carriers from cutting them off.

Verizon makes a LOT of money providing M2M services for these devices and it costs them relatively little bandwidth because these applications don’t send a lot of data. They care very much about keeping that revenue.

I remember back in 2012 everyone thought the same thing about the 2G GSM/M2M cellular networks… what, wasn’t tmobile supposed to keep their 2G network up till 2021? We all see how that turned out. Tmobile 2G/EDGE is pretty much completely refarmed, and gone everywhere, and it’s what, still 6 years from the “official” sunset date?

I regularly run reports on which of our customers are using 2G AT&T and T-Mobile Alarm.com modules because it concerns me. The vast majority of them are still working fine now. A small fraction of them have had enough 2G-related problems that they were forced upgrade to 3G but most of the 2G modules are still working fine now. Even AT&T 2G is still working fine now for many customers. I wish they would all upgrade but as long as their 2G modules keep working they just keep using them. I’ll bet that most of these 2G T-Mobile modules will still be working in 2017 like T-Mobile said. Hopefully those users will have upgraded before then.

It was only a year or so ago that Alarm.com stopped allowing new accounts to be registered with 2G modules. That was a wise policy and I’m glad they did it but 2G M2M is far from dead right now. I see customers using it every day. Alarm.com doesn’t even offer 4G LTE modules yet. I hope they do as soon as possible but I’m not worried about 3G CDMA for M2M devices being cut off any time soon.

I guess it was sort of a rhetorical question but since I installed the panel a week ago, it was sort of an “uh oh” moment. Having internals upgradeable, like 2Gig, is actually pretty forward thinking. Nevertheless, love the Qolsys panel and the whole setup from you guys really.

Having just installed the Qolsys myself, I am wondering if I should swap my Verizon panel out for an AT&T panel? Would this buy me some extra years down the road?

Just make sure you use the coverage check to determine which to use.

Concern over a possible sunset date in 6 years should be very much secondary to making sure the system has quality signalling throughout its use.

I am thinking its more like 4- 4 1/2 years give or take.

For those areas that Verizon refarms from CDMA to LTE/XLTE/VoLTE there is no more CDMA service. areas may go offline/roam over night.

Where I live, there is only LTE, but you can roam off US cellular at 1xRTT (I think).

What really infuriates me about this, is the fact that I was never even made aware of the OPTION to have an AT&T cell module as opposed to Verizon. My family has 3 smartphones and an iPad ALL through AT&T and have been very happy with their service.
Had I been given the option, I without a doubt would have chose AT&T. Instead, Surety took it upon themselves to ship me out a device that will be utterly useless in 6 years tops??? Are you kidding me? I do NOT want to be purchasing new panels every 4-6 years for my home alarm system. I do NOT want to be re-programming every single sensor I have and re-installing the panel every 4-6 years. For Qolsys to bet on the masses wishing to upgrade alarm panels and go through all that hassle is one of the biggest mistakes I’ve ever encountered. And this is coming from someone who always has the latest technology! So now, I have to remove this panel that I just spent all that time installing, box it up, and send it back. I then have to attempt to reprogram ALL the sensors that I have spent the last two weeks fooling around with. Thermostat, dimmer switch, image sensors, smoke alarm detector, door switches ALL have to be reprogrammed! Why would you guys choose to send me the Verizon unit without all this information? This is quite unbelievable. In fact, I might just box it ALL back up!!!

Again, regardless of the exact time-frame, the industry is no longer “Install metal can that will sit in the basement for 3 decades.”

It is interactive and fluid. Communications technology will continue to evolve decade to decade rapidly and product development will need to keep up.

As Ryan mentioned earlier, there is always the possibility (and in all likelihood probability if a 4 year time frame is accurate) that a supplementary 4G adapter could come into play. Similar to the Go!Bridge bringing dual path to the 2GIG Go!Control Panel, which was released fairly recently and yet the GC3 is, relatively speaking, right around the corner. That was developed late in the game to solve problems that were not future communications loss. Product support in general does not evaporate unless there are extenuating circumstances (like a company going belly up), and the Tyco investment bolsters a lot of confidence in that regard. I cannot give Qolsys’ definitive plan because they have not divulged one.

Doomsaying will have no effect on any of this.

All cellular communications products are subject to the same thing because they all utilize the carrier infrastructure. In the interest of clarity:

We do not directly sell Qolsys AT&T panels yet because of a couple reasons:

  1. They were developed after the initial Verizon model was proven and are not yet available through our general distribution.
  2. AT&T M2M network we have found to be not nearly as wide as the Verizon network. (AT&T HSPA Modules for 2GIG are swapped far more often)

It seems to me you’re getting all riled up over 1 guy’s wild speculation but if you want to return your equipment you certainly can. Our return policy is very clear and fair.

No, you don’t have an option of getting a Qolsys panel with an AT&T radio from suretyDIY. Qolsys panels have been Verizon-only since the beginning. They have been working on an AT&T version but we don’t currently offer it. No, not 4-6 years tops. The only public statement from Verizon is 6 years bottoms (from now) and probably longer than. Even after the sunset there are options such as IP only or Qolsys developing an adapter. No, you probably wouldn’t have to reprogram everything because Alarm.com has a back-up and panel swap feature.

I recommend researching the issue and relying on statements from the companies in this business instead of 1 guy who likes stir up controversy. If you decide not to stick with Qolsys or suretyDIY we will understand and apologize that we couldn’t meet your needs.

I recommend researching the issue and relying on statements from the companies in this business instead of 1 guy who likes stir up controversy

How am I stirring up controversy? Facts are facts. And they come directly from Verizon VP’s of M2M and Network support. Are open discussions frowned upon now in the SuretyCAM DIY Forums?

In 2012 (3 years ago), Verizon’s VP of M2M said 2021 (6 yrs):

Verizon Wireless is no hurry to sunset its 2G and 3G networks even though data traffic is moving over to LTE at a dramatic pace. At CTIA MobileCon, FierceWireless pinned down Verizon VP of M2M global strategy, Aparna Khurjekar, on an exact date. Her response: 2021.
Verizon Wireless spokesperson clarified with Fierce that that 2021 is the year to which Verizon is committing to keep its 2G and 3G online so its enterprise and M2M customers can make long-term plans

Source: https://gigaom.com/2012/10/11/when-will-verizon-shutter-its-cdma-networks-2021-maybe/

In 2014, Verizon started massive nationwide refarmimg of PCI spectrum CDMA/EVDO to LTE/XLTE/VoLTE, and approx 8 months ago (Dec, 2014) Verizon VP of network support (Haberman) upped the date to 2019 (4 1/2 years).

Verizon plans on continuing EV-DO operations on its CDMA network until at least Dec. 31, 2019, Haberman said, especially for larger M2M customers.