It does make me feel slightly better to at least know that I never had the option to purchase the AT&T version. I was under the impression that someone at Surety chose not to ever offer me the option to install a panel with a potentially longer cellular lifespan. That now appears to have never been the case. I apologize for making that assumption. It does also make me feel better that the swapping out and reprogramming of a new panel will not be as labor intensive as I originally thought. I would hope that an adapter will for sure be developed and at least be an option. Maybe many customers would like to upgrade to a new panel with some new features in 6 years. But to not give them an option is just not good business practice in my opinion. I definitely did get riled up, and some of that may have to do with the frustration from time spent trying to get my V520ir to stay connected and then paying to ship it back. I’m sure you all can understand my perspective. I am going to keep my system because I really do like it. It’s amazing in many ways. I would urge Surety to emphatically pass along to Qolsys this information and please suggest they assign resources to develop a work around to this Verizon problem down the road. Just like Rive said, there will be a LOT of unhappy Qolsys customers if we are left SOL. Let’s hope that don’t happen. Thank you rive for your thoughts/opinions/help. I think it’s in everyone’s best interest to know about the Verizon issue down the road and have other options if their coverage area allows it.
For what it is worth:
All cellular towers can differentiate what kind of devices are attempting to connect to it, either by a class code or IMEI. This means that any carrier could keep up a M2M (machine to machine) network without providing normal ‘customer’ cellular access.
Why would they do this? Well the majority of the m2m market (all?) handles technical support for their own clients (surety for theirs, vivint for theirs, etc) so even if when a carrier takes down a tower (maintenance, lighting, whatever) the support cost incurred for that downtime is very low. They can still bill for the m2m access and as long as the physical equipment is still working and terminating at the tower then the incentive to replace is low, compared to normal voice traffic.
I would be very surprised if the medical and financial industries do not have specific dates in their contracts with the carriers. Again it won’t generally be seen as VZW’s fault, but vivint (as an example).
Also the internet of things is coming full force, members of this forum are on the bleeding edge; however Verizon (nor AT&T) is not stupid and wants to take advantage of that explosive brand new market.
My point is: just becuase you can not get EVDO/3G in your area on your phone does not mean that all 3G m2m devices are dead. There is a hundred ways you could set that up (different PRL for example).
Thanks for the info ErebusBat. I do admit I had an “UH OH” moment and may have overreacted. Don’t get me wrong, the potential problem is very real, just as rive pointed out. But I’ll try not to make more of an issue of it than it really is. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions.
It is definitely an impending issue, but a very large market of voices exists to make sure there is future protection. The Tyco investment alone speaks volumes, not to mention the raft of new products being revealed for the Qolsys panel.
How am I stirring up controversy? Facts are facts. And they come directly from Verizon VP’s of M2M and Network support. Are open discussions frowned upon now in the SuretyCAM DIY Forums?
I encourage open discussions and I don’t mean to single you out. I’m sorry. You know I love your flair and passion.
Your quote from Haberman says “until at least Dec. 31, 2019”, not on or before Dec. 31, 2019. It also says “especially for larger M2M customers” implying that 3G M2M service will go on longer than regular EV-DO data service. It doesn’t matter as much for regular CDMA phone users. It matters a lot for M2M applications.
Here are some other relevant quotes.
Indeed, Verizon's 2021 sunset date is far more important to its machine-to-machine customers than to its smartphone-toting customer base. M2M applications generally are designed to run for years on the same equipment. Khurjekar said Verizon would give its M2M customers "several years" of leeway past the 2021 sunset date if they needed it.
http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/verizon-wireless-sunset-2g-and-3g-cdma-networks-2021/2012-10-10
The Verizon Wireless 2G and 3G networks will be available as long as necessary to support customers who may have mission critical projects on those networks.
Also, even if Verizon doesn’t shut down 2G and 3G sites for another nine years, there’s nothing stopping it from whittling away at them. Verizon’s CDMA 1X and EV-DO technologies can persist on very little bandwidth, meaning Verizon could keep nationwide 2G and 3G networks with only a handful of megahertz. It could then take the rest of its cellular and PCS spectrum and put it to 4G use.
Verizon will have to keep a modicum of CDMA online for the foreseeable future though. In 10 years our handsets and tablets will have fully completed the jump to 4G, but there will still be CDMA radios embedded in cars, shipping containers, industrial equipment and even vending machines and jukeboxes, all of which will need a network to link to. Verizon will want to keep those lucrative revenues coming.
https://gigaom.com/2012/10/11/when-will-verizon-shutter-its-cdma-networks-2021-maybe
Speaking at an investor conference this week, Verizon Communications CFO Fran Shammo said the carrier’s CDMA network was still a “very long-term network” for the operator as it looks to support “small bursts” of data triggered by connected devices and IoT services. “You have to remember we have a lot of ‘Internet of Things’ still riding on that network,” Shammo said. “It’s an extremely efficient network when you get to just small bursts of data through the network, so I think that network is going to be here for a long time.”
Thanks Ryan for that great info. All that makes sense and seems promising. Realistically, I will probably be ready for something new in about 8 years. It was the 4 year hypothetical that shocked the heck out of me and gave me pause. Anything beyond about 8ish years and I don’t really care what they do as long as I can still use many of my sensors. Ultimately, this thread resulted in a lot of good information being shared and links to many sources. This is a good thing.