I have a PowerG (PG9985) water sensor connected to a Qolsys IQ2+ panel.
Connection shows good.
Battery tests good.
I can pick up the sensor and touch the two leads together to generate an alarm condition.
In other words, it appears to work properly.
Problem is I had a water issue in the basement today. Condensate line apparently froze and the the pump overflowed. I now have someone coming to rip up carpet.
The PG9985 generated no alarm condition, despite sitting in standing water. Thank goodness for our cheap manual units that all went off. Unfortunately, we didn’t hear it until we went downstairs this morning.
This panel can beep all day long for a low battery, while a flood alarm gets nothing.
I have two homes with the same equipment setup. Just realized I only moved one home over the Surety. The one in question was still with my old provider (just cancelled this morning).
My original plan was to move this home to Surety, and I thought I already had. Now I’m wondering if monitoring is even necessary. If the system doesn’t work, there is nothing to monitor.
Placement can’t be the issue. The sensor was sitting in water. Not very deep, but deep enough to touch the contacts. Nothing on the panel, no alarm sent to central station.
Battery (power) is fine. Connection to panel is fine. I touched the contact points with a screwdriver and the panel immediately went into alarm. The flood alarm works, just not with water. Strange.
Since it was in the basement, we didn’t find out until this morning when we heard the backup alarms. Damage is only about $1,000. If we relied solely on the monitoring system, things about have been considerably worse. I’m very disappointed with this Qolsys/PowerG junk. It will drive you crazy over a low battery, but completely fail on critical issues.
As mentioned, there is no activity reported in the panel or alarm.com account. Only the manual activation I did to test the sensor shows up.
Sensor is programmed properly. If I manually activate it with a screwdriver, the alarm goes into alert mode. Alarm.com sees the alarm, and I get notified. Alarm status must be cleared on the panel.
The problem is this only happens if I manually active the sensor with something like a screwdriver touching the two pins.
The sensor was sitting in water when I discovered the flood, probably for a few hours. Nothing - no alarm, no notice, no record of a problem. Nearby water alarms (cheap, Home Depot types that are not connected) in the same water all activated. Only the connected, powerG sensor did nothing.
If it was billed as a screwdriver detector, it gets a five-start rating. As a water sensor, it fails miserably.
I’m trying to understand what happened and how to fix the issue. I’m strongly considering dumping all this equipment and find a more reliable system. As expensive as a replacement would be, it is still less than the damage caused had I been away and the problem continued for a few days instead of a few hours.
Based on the description of events through previous testing via the screwdriver, the panel is working as it should and communicating with Alarm.com. The sensor is sending an alarm signal when being tripped (via screwdriver) and is causing an alarm state at the panel, indicating the sensor is signaling. Assuming sensor signaling is stable, then the issue might be one of the following:
Both probes on the sensor portion were not touching water when the event occurred
The device is experiencing a hardware issue such as the sensor cable with probe not being connected to the transmitter properly
PG9985 Hardware failure
Have you tested the PG9985 sensor in a real scenario with water previously, as it is mounted?
When testing where alarm triggers are involved, you will want to place your monitoring account on test mode to avoid false dispatch.
Have nothing of value to add on the possible cause of the failure, but in the future it’s always wise to test these sensors when newly installed using a wet paper towel to confirm they work properly. I did have a flood sensor from another manufacturer other than DSC that also did not work in real conditions, yet could be tripped by shorting the contacts with a metal object. Made no sense to me either. Figured it was a fluke, but perhaps these sorts of contacts need to be tested periodically.
Thanks for the info. It is actually very helpful to know that, while unlikely, it is possible for a sensor to fail in real life conditions while still working by shorting the contacts.
I’ll try some tests with this sensor to see if I can figure out what went wrong. Still need to figure out a more reliable solution for trouble notifications. I no longer trust these sensors.
My condensate pump is now in a large basin. That will at least buy me some time in the event of a failure.
Is there a flood detector other than a PG9985 that will work with a Qolsys IQ2+ panel (319.5MHz version)?
Yes sir, both the ELK-319WA and the Qolsys S-line 319.5 flood sensor. Can also run a hardwired flood sensor via a hardwire converter. I’m running all of the above in different applications throughout my property. All have their own advantages and disadvantages.
Fairly big price spread between the three options.
PG $80-90
Qolsys $53 (only one I find on the Surety website)
ELK $30-35
I’m happy to pay more for a better, more reliable product. I’d like to think “you get what you pay for,” but does that really apply here? Does this price difference reflect quality? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
Overall, when compared to 319.5MHz and 319.5MHz S-Line, PowerG sensors are going to boast greater communication range with a more robust encryption scheme, while typically they have a higher up-front cost.
Essentially, battery life is not as great, I don’t remember if you get a low battery notification with the Elk sensor. The contact head is maybe 1/3 the size and the transmitter is 1/2 the size so it doesn’t stand out like a sore thumb in the open is it’s biggest advantage. Overall the PG sensors are light years better, but this is one of those cases where the advantages may not be that important in most cases. In this one man’s opinion and limited experience.
Thanks much for all the information. Very helpful.
I have just ordered a PD9985 and an ELK. Will use both and see how it goes.
The flood potential is in an unfinished utility room in the basement. I plan to build a “silicone wall” (a 1/2” to 1” high bead of silicone) around the furnace and water heater. This should allow for a deeper pool of standing water in the event of another flood, before it overflows into the finished area. This should give a sensor plenty of water to work with.
I also placed my condensate pump in a large bin. One flood sensor will also be placed in the bin. This will contain several gallons of water problems and the sensor will eventually be totally submerged. I figure if it doesn’t work then, there’s nothing more I can do. If it does work as intended, I will also have more time to address the problem.
Ideally, I’d like to install a floor drain. That seems to be prohibitively expensive - even if I could find a local contractor to take on the project.
Just a thought from a bystander… if you have the source of the water in a bin of some sort, perhaps a float switch may work. That switch may also work inside your condensate pump, depending…
Examples:
Clip on style: Amazon.com
and Wire tie type for around a pipe: Amazon.com
I use them and connected it to an inexpensive IQ Mini Extended or PG9945 or even a takeover module if you have an open zone. This is cheaper if you have something like this already on hand, of course.
Also your condensate pump may have an internal overflow switch of its own you may be able to wire into a sensor input, depending on the model. (Intended to actually break your thermostat connection to shut down your furnace/AC, but it can be wired into an alarm sensor and programmed as a flood group/zone.)