I am looking to upgrade the current system at a property from the current Moose Z1100 system to the Qolsys IQPanel2+ and hardwire 16f. From looking at prior posts, I do see that we will need to potentially remediate the siren if there is not a driver for it (if it’s only a speaker). Right now, the system consists of only wired motion sensors and some heat sensors. In addition, we have a Simplex 4010ES fire alarm system with a 4010-9911 Alarm Relay Module. This module connects in to the Z1100 to trigger an alarm/call in the case that anything in the Simplex system is triggered (heat, smoke, or pull stations). Would it be possible to maintain that connection between the hardwire 16F and the simplex 4010-9911?
Hey, yes you are right, if that is just a speaker then you would need a driver for it. The Qolsys panel siren output is just a relay to switch power to a low current siren. You could just replace the speaker with a siren, that would be the easiest.
PowerG sirens are compatible that are wireless.
You wouldn’t be able to tie in the Simplex system like that. The Hardwire 16F has one smoke zone for specific two wire smokes, and cannot otherwise accept fire devices.
I’m not finding documentation on the 4010-9911, but I am seeing it mentioned in 4010ES documentation.
Does it simply have a NC contact closure that trips whenever any fire event input occurs from the Simplex system?
There would be ways of monitoring that, though they would not be UL approved solutions.
Thanks for the fast reply Jason. I have had the same issue finding documentation on the 9911, but definitely have the documentation showing that it was installed at the location!
I think it is very similar to the following, but am working on confirming:
Based on the module above (pending clarification on differences in the 4010-9911), the module is configurable to operate in NC or NO mode. In the relays they have, this is how it is currently working:
Alarm Relay - trips whenever any fire alarms in the system (smoke, heat, or handle pull). This is the relay that is currently connected to our Moose system
Supervisor Relay - trips when “supervisories” in the system are triggered. not currently connected to our moose system
Trouble relay - trips whenever there are troubles in the system. not currently connected to our moose system.
There is not a UL approved method that I know of for incorporating that, but without finding any actual documentation for that product it is hard to say anything definitive.
What I can say is we do not monitor commercial fire systems. What you would be doing here is essentially turning a dedicated fire system into a single fire zone on an alarm panel. I am not 100% sure based on current knowledge, but I don’t think we can support that kind of integration. I’ll do a little more digging to be sure.
Thanks Jason. You are accurate in stating that what it would essentially do is turn the fire system into a single zone. Now - that’s how it’s been set up for 25 years, and i know things change While it is a commercial system, it’s definitely not a commercial property. I guess in my mind I did not differentiate between the end result of what the Firefighter audio detector does (sends in a signal if it detects a smoke detector going off) and sending in a signal if a fire alarm system was going off. It’s always interesting to hear “put in the firefighter to detect if your fire alarm is going off and that signal is ok, but getting the signal from the a system that is alarming people of a potential fire (from smokes/heats/pullstation), that is not ok.”
You’re right, functionally, you’re basically doing a very similar thing that the Firefighter is designed to do. The documentation for the relay would help in terms of recommendations, but again, there are always ways of monitoring it as a single zone. Just not on the Hardwire 16F.
My concern lies primarily with whether or not this is a fire code required system. As long as this isn’t a code-required suppression/detection system for a commercial property, it is likely ok. We do not monitor those systems and they are subject to mandatory professional yearly testing and maintenance, per your fire marshal.
I had assumed it would be a commercial location considering the system that is installed.
One option, if you simply have a single relay which activates during alarms would be a wireless sensor with a wired input, like an IQ Extended Door/Window contact, or if you go with the 345Mhz version of the IQ Panel 2+, a 2GIG DW10 could be used, which can be programmed as a fire type zone.
Thanks again for the quick response. The documentation of the module is still proving difficult to get - and still trying. So far our contact has only given us the “it has a simple Normally Open / Normally closed contact option. so a simple relay card”. I know - not always the best to go off of, but they are using our questions as an opportunity to get us to use their monitoring service
The property is a very large residential property that is not required to have a system at all (in this city only commercial & multi-unit residential fall under the required list), but had the components donated for an over-the-top coverage scenario.
Based on what I know of the relay module is it has 3 relays you can use, but not required to use all 3. The alarm relay, which activates during alarms. the other 2 relays are activated for “supervisory” or “trouble” situations - think along the lines of shorts detected in the wires, low/replace battery, loss of power, etc.
In the option you listed, we would probably go with 3 of the sensors, one for alarm which would be programmed as a fire type zone, and the other 2 would be programmed to send a notification of the trouble/supervisory situation but not set up as a fire zone or of the type to trigger anything with the monitoring. I actually do think the option you listed would work, the only worry i would have is if the signal is the right strength (wrong word…i know) to actually trigger the sensor correctly.
I actually do think the option you listed would work, the only worry i would have is if the signal is the right strength (wrong word…i know) to actually trigger the sensor correctly.
That’s not a concern. If it is just a dry relay you would just directly connect the NC and Common to the sensor input. The sensor will have a max wire length dictated by the type of sensor you buy, but that’ll be like 30 feet or so for 22AWG usually.
You have a good idea there. One sensor could be programmed as a normal fire zone, another connected to the supervisory relay could be programmed as a no-response type contact allowing you to set up notifications in Alarm.com but never actually trigger an alarm.
