Detached Shop/Garage

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1

I am building a new shop at my place. 60’x100’ metal building, about 750 feet from the house. I plan to put a separate system in the shop, with it’s own IQ 2 control panel. I have a few questions.

  1. Cell service is weak out at the farm. With 4G I show one bar on my phone, when standing out in the open where the building will be located. (Verizon works fine on voice, txt, data, but ATT is marginal hit and miss). Will the cellular communicator even work inside a metal building, or can an external antenna be connected?

  2. I’d like to have motion sensors, but have had a problem in current shop with the occasional bird that gets inside thru the bay doors when I am working, then get’s locked up inside, eventually setting off a motion detector. Had a bat one time. Is there anything to do to make sensors bird-proof? Any other type motion sensor (laser, pressure pads, etc) that might be of benefit?

  3. The shop will have 4 bay doors, 2 man doors, and 3 interior doors in partitions. Building will be divided with steel panel walls into 3 sections. Other than the 9 total door switches, any other type sensor that will be reliable and useful?

  4. Shop will be insulated, but no a/c or heat. It will be used for welding. 20’ ceilings. Is there a smoke/fire/heat/rate-of-rise sensor that would hold up in that environment and be reliable?

Thank you.

2
Will the cellular communicator even work inside a metal building, or can an external antenna be connected?
Building will be divided with steel panel walls into 3 sections.
Shop will be insulated, but no a/c or heat. It will be used for welding. 20′ ceilings. Is there a smoke/fire/heat/rate-of-rise sensor that would hold up in that environment and be reliable?

There are a lot of big concerns in this case, and I think you will find a lot of difficulty overall trying to implement a wireless system in this environment.

The IQ Panel 2 and the wireless sensors it uses are typically intended for interior use and a regulated temperature environment. Steel walls will devour wireless sensor signals, and from your description, it sounds like the sensors would be directly mounted to metal as well, and in such an environment I would expect a ton of signal errors.

In an entirely metal building, especially if cell service is spotty already, an internal cell antenna in a panel will possibly receive very poor signal.

PIR Motion detectors, unless specifically made for outdoor use, should not be used in an environment where temperature is not regulated.

Overall I would say an all-in-one panel and wireless sensors would not be a good choice for such an environment.

Considering you are constructing this building, I would recommend running cabling to utilize wired sensors in the space. All sensors should likely be wired. This will resolve more than one issue, and give you options for outdoor motion detectors should you wish to implement them. Lots of wired sensors exist that are intended for this type of installation, as opposed to very few wireless options, and in the case of GE 319.5 which Qolsys uses, there are pretty much no wireless sensors that I can think of which would be very well suited to this.

The wired sensors can then be used with an Alarm.com compatible traditional panel, like the Concord 4, or you could connect them to a Hardwire 16, installed close to the IQ Panel location should you opt for the all-in-one panel.

For the space, I would recommend a wired panel. One of the reasons to use something like the Concord 4 is that with the Concord, the cellular module is a separate board, wired to the main panel, not integrated. The module and its antenna location can be adjusted for optimal signaling.

We have tried using external powered cell antennae in the past with 2GIG panels, with mixed results. We have not used one with the Concord 4 modules. Generally I would expect improvement in signal, but powered antennae are pricey and I think getting the antenna outside will do as much or more to improve quality.

Shop will be insulated, but no a/c or heat. It will be used for welding. 20′ ceilings. Is there a smoke/fire/heat/rate-of-rise sensor that would hold up in that environment and be reliable?

For fire detection, a high temperature rate of rise detector is probably best in that environment. A good solution might be something like this. This could only be used with a wired panel.

I’d like to have motion sensors, but have had a problem in current shop with the occasional bird that gets inside thru the bay doors when I am working, then get’s locked up inside, eventually setting off a motion detector. Had a bat one time. Is there anything to do to make sensors bird-proof? Any other type motion sensor (laser, pressure pads, etc) that might be of benefit?

For an outdoor motion detector, this may be a good option. Outdoor detectors are designed to limit false activation.

Or you could use a photoelectric beam sensor like this.

3

The hardwire-16 might work. Didn’t think about the wireless sensors bouncing around too much in the building itself. I am planning to switch the house over to a new system also, so if the hardware didn’t work, I could just use it in the house. Getting the cell signal out remains the big problem then.

Chasing rabbits here. Would it be possible to have a Qolsys2 each in the house and shop, but only have central monitoring on the house system, and a wired link between (maybe a relay on the siren outputs on the garage system, closing a hardwired loop to the house panel? The house panel, connected to central monitoring, would just alarm on that wired input. I’d just know that the “garage” went off, not which sensor/door. (That is the way my current shop is set up, all the shop sensors are daisychained on one input to the house system (on an old fully wired system).

If I was able to do that, would I still have dual-path, for access to the system (and smash-and-grab, etc) if cellular was not working? I will have internet (via wifi link) at the shop.

Back to the concord 4 or other wired system. If I went that route, I see you don’t sell those systems, but can you do a takeover monitoring? I really don’t want to deal with 2 different alarm companies/bills/etc for two totally independent systems.

4
Would it be possible to have a Qolsys2 each in the house and shop, but only have central monitoring on the house system, and a wired link between (maybe a relay on the siren outputs on the garage system, closing a hardwired loop to the house panel?

This is an interesting idea, and if you wanted to go this route, yes it should be possible. Would need an external power supply and relay.

If I was able to do that, would I still have dual-path, for access to the system (and smash-and-grab, etc) if cellular was not working? I will have internet (via wifi link) at the shop.

Dual path would still function, yes, and allow you control over the system via broadband if you have wifi in the shop. The only hitch I can think of is that Image Sensor images only transmit over cell, but you wouldn’t be able to use image sensors in that unregulated temp environment anyway.

If you had cell failure one thing to note is that you would see a cell failure alert, and you cannot remove a cell communicator from the account and only use broadband.

Back to the concord 4 or other wired system. If I went that route, I see you don’t sell those systems, but can you do a takeover monitoring?

Yes, we provide monitoring for all Alarm.com compatible panels. This page goes over how to use a Concord 4 with suretyDIY.

5

OK, I’m getting a good feel for what will and will not work. Looks like I have some options.

Couple more questions:

Q1) Will the cellular communicator work with a cell signal booster/repeater, such as the SureCall Fusion4Home or WilsonPro?? https://www.repeaterstore.com/products/surecall-fusion4home

I could mount the control panel and hardwire-16 in a small 12x16 wood frame shed that is exterior to the shop and about 15’ distance. Conduit would be used to get wires from wired sensors to the hardwire-16. Then, use a remote key fob to arm/disarm.

Q2) If I went the route above, is the Qolsys pin pad (QS-1311-P01) compatible with the newer IQ Panel 2? I’d rather have a coded entry, rather than just a push-button arm/disarm left in the trucks.

Thanks, Jason, you are being a great help here!

6
I could mount the control panel and hardwire-16 in a small 12×16 wood frame shed that is exterior to the shop and about 15′ distance.

I would not recommend this. You would want to keep the panel inside the building.

Will the cellular communicator work with a cell signal booster/repeater, such as the SureCall Fusion4Home or WilsonPro??

I’ve never tried one of these, but a cell network booster which has an exterior antenna and an internal antenna to broadcast is a good solution.

At least with the Verizon carrier, cell network extenders can have the appropriate panel number placed it its whitelist, allowing the panel to connect to the extender. This is actually probably the best solution to the cell signal issue if it is pretty low in general.

AT&T specific cell network extenders filter devices and do not allow the modules to connect.

If I went the route above, is the Qolsys pin pad (QS-1311-P01) compatible with the newer IQ Panel 2? I’d rather have a coded entry, rather than just a push-button arm/disarm left in the trucks.

Yes, the pin pad can be used. It doesn’t sync with alarm panel codes, just has its own code. However, I would recommend just using remote smartphone commands with a metal building.

7
I would not recommend this. You would want to keep the panel inside the building.

Just wanted to be clear…the 12x16 is not an open shed, it is an enclosed storage building. But, not insulated or anything.

I will try the booster regardless…I know I won’t have a usable signal inside for phone calls, so will be going that route anyway, just for phone use.

8
Just wanted to be clear…the 12×16 is not an open shed, it is an enclosed storage building. But, not insulated or anything.

Ah, gotcha. I would still recommend the main building, where I would presume temperatures will skew less toward the extremes and fluctuate more slowly than a non-insulated, smaller structure.