i have a GC2 and resolution translator. today when i opened a door and then closed it, the zone was still registering as open. i tried several times to open and close, with no recognition at the panel of the actions. i initially thought it was a faulty sensor. i rebooted the panel, following which the panel was green, ready to arm. i then tried all the other sensors in the same zone; the panel did not recognize any open/close actions, it always remained green. all the sensors are set to supervision, with no error notices at the panel.
all other sensors in other zones seem to be functioning appropriately. the connections at the box appear secure.
am i correct in assuming there is a problem with the one zone, and how do you recommend i troubleshoot it?
all other sensors in other zones seem to be functioning appropriately. the connections at the box appear secure.
am i correct in assuming there is a problem with the one zone, and how do you recommend i troubleshoot it?
Yes. If all other sensors are reporting correctly that would indicate a problem with that zone circuit.
The best way to test the zone is to remove its wires and connect them to a multimeter/ohmeter to test the resistance on the circuit when the sensors are closed and opened. When opened, if the resistance does not change to infinite (whatever the detector would show if the leads were held apart and not touching anything) then that means there is a short on the circuit before that sensor’s involvement.
Is the best place to test resistance at the box I assume? And if there is a short, to find it’s location, would
I have to check every sensor in the zone? What is the most commmon cause of this type of problem?
Thanks
Is the best place to test resistance at the box I assume?
Yes, you need to test the circuit resistance at the panel or hardwire translator connection (whichever applicable).
And if there is a short, to find it’s location, would
I have to check every sensor in the zone? What is the most commmon cause of this type of problem?
If a short exists, realistically it could be anywhere along the circuit. Sometimes other housework near where the wire is run might cause a cut/pinched wire.
If you have a series circuit and none of the sensors open the zone though, that means the short is before the sensors. It could even be right at the translator if bare wire is accidentally touching.
Temperature changes can cause swelling and contracting of home materials, so pinching of the wire may be possible along the run depending on it was installed. It very much depends on the case.
You would want to confirm this is the issue though with the resistance testing on the circuit. If the circuit otherwise behaves normally and the resistance changes, something else is the cause.
When testing resistance, what value do you see on that circuit when all sensors closed?
What resistance for each sensor open by itself?
Yes, you need to test the circuit resistance at the panel or hardwire translator connection (whichever applicable)
Do I test the resistance with or without the resistor in place?
The panel you’re referring to here is the original wired panel (not the 2gig panel), correct?
If you have a series circuit and none of the sensors open the zone though, that means the short is before the sensors.
The zone is being read by the panel as continuously open, so I can’t test individual sensors within the zone (or at least I don’t know how)
(I’m assuming all the sensors in each of the translator’s zones are in series, but all of them zones are in parallel?)
When testing resistance, what value do you see on that circuit when all sensors closed?
What resistance for each sensor open by itself?
Just to make sure I understand correctly—-you mean test with the multimeter at the wired panel/translator, with each individual sensor in the zone opened?
Do I test the resistance with or without the resistor in place?
The panel you’re referring to here is the original wired panel (not the 2gig panel), correct?
Yes, leave the resistor attached. No need to remove.
I am referring to panels for other readers who do not have a translator but a similar question.
Wherever the ends of the detection circuit wires are connected - in this case it would be at the wired to wireless translator, correct?
The zone is being read by the panel as continuously open, so I can’t test individual sensors within the zone (or at least I don’t know how)
(I’m assuming all the sensors in each of the translator’s zones are in series, but all of them zones are in parallel?)
You test individual sensors by simply opening just that sensor. The goal there is to determine whether any sensors behave differently, possibly indicating a sensor malfunction.
The circuit is in Series.
Parallel items must all open to open the circuit. This is not how sensor circuits are wired.
Series items only one must open to open the circuit.
Are you still seeing all other zones operate normally?
Just to make sure I understand correctly—-you mean test with the multimeter at the wired panel/translator, with each individual sensor in the zone opened?
Yes. Test one by one to determine if any of them result in the circuit not opening.
Since it is reporting open now, you may just have a wiring issue at the translator, but it is difficult to assume in the case of wired circuits.
So the values you want to check:
All sensors closed.
One sensor open (once for each sensor on that circuit)
on a zone currently functioning properly, with all sensors closed, the multimeter is reading ~8.6 kohm. with an open sensor, the reading is 1.
on the zone not currently functioning, the multimeter reading is constantly 1, whether all sensors are closed or one is open.
incidentally, there seems to be a second issue: the GC panel is intermittently not recognizing open/closed changes of random sensors. sometimes i will open a sensor and the panel recognizes it, but when i close the sensor, the panel still reads it as open. other times, opening a sensor will not be recognized by the panel. is this unrelated to my first problem of a faulty zone? does it suggest a problem with one or both of the translators?
fyi i have a wired system connected to a wired-to-GE wireless translator, and a GE wireless to 2gig wireless translator.
on a zone currently functioning properly, with all sensors closed, the multimeter is reading ~8.6 kohm
This may indicate the bulk of the issue actually, regarding the intermittent failure on other zones.
What model of wired-to-wireless translator do you have? Is it the RE108? If so, note that the appropriate resistance you should see is roughly 4.7 kohms.
Is it possible that the circuits have another resistor installed in addition to the one included with the RE108?
I went back and remeasured—-I think I was doing it incorrectly. Seven of the zones are ~4.62 kohm while closed. The zone not being recognized by the panel as being closed is constantly 1, closed or with a sensor open.
Am I going to have to take all the sensors in the faulty zone out of series at the translator and individually test each of them? Or is there something else I can do?
I went back and remeasured—-I think I was doing it incorrectly. Seven of the zones are ~4.62 kohm while closed. The zone not being recognized by the panel as being closed is constantly 1, closed or with a sensor open.
That’s within expectations then (the 4.62 kohms).
If you are seeing intermittent times when opening a sensor does not trigger the zones (on multiple zones) it is likely a more systemic issue with the two translators.
Note that if one sensor on a circuit is still open, opening another will not result in any chime.
Am I going to have to take all the sensors in the faulty zone out of series at the translator and individually test each of them? Or is there something else I can do?
This would be the best option to determine which sensor is causing the issue. You can visually inspect the sensors before-hand to see if any appear misaligned or if a magnet has fallen, etc., and that may save some testing, but if all otherwise look fine this would be the way to go to definitively point to the offending sensor which is keeping the circuit open.
Ultimately if you are seeing intermittent problems on all zones it may make more sense to replace with a TAKE-345. This will avoid issues with resistors and the double translator setup.
I believe I identified the malfunctioning sensor. I then connected the two wires to one another at the translator, then removed the wires from the sensor itself and tested there, getting the same result. This means there is a problem with the wiring somewhere between the sensor and the translator, is that correct? Is the best option here just to replace this sensor with a wireless one? I’m not sure how one could easily examine the wire running through the walls to find the problem?
Ultimately if you are seeing intermittent problems on all zones it may make more sense to replace with a TAKE-345. This will avoid issues with resistors and the double translator setup
So the wires go directly into the TAKE-345, and don’t require resistors? Is the setup otherwise the same? Why does the RE108 require resistors?
This means there is a problem with the wiring somewhere between the sensor and the translator, is that correct?
If the circuit is open when you twist the wires together at the translator that would mean either than the problem is with the wiring of the circuit, or another of the sensors.
You would want to test all sensors the way you are describing where you remove the wires from the sensor and test resistance between them with the wires twisted together at the translator end.
If you test like this and a sensor itself is the problem, all of the sensors should remain open when tested that way except the one that is causing the problem. When you remove the one that is causing the problem out of the circuit the circuit should close.
How did you determine that particular sensor was causing an issue?
If the circuit never closes when any of the sensors are removed, that means the wiring is the problem, possible cut somewhere along its length.
So the wires go directly into the TAKE-345, and don’t require resistors? Is the setup otherwise the same? Why does the RE108 require resistors?
Correct, the TAKE-345 looks for resistance under 3 kohm on closed circuits. The RE108 looks for ~4.7 kohm on closed circuits.
How did you determine that particular sensor was causing an issue?
I disconnected the malfunctioning zone from the translator. I then separated out the individual sensors that had been connected in series to the single zone. I then tested the resistance for each individual sensor circuit, and got 4.62 kohm for all but one of the sensor circuits; the last one read 1. For the one that read 1, I twisted the two wires together at the translator and then went to the sensor. I pulled the sensor out of the door frame and removed the wires from the sensor. I tested the resistance here and again got 1. I assumed this means the problem is the wiring and not the sensor. Is that a correct conclusion?
Aha, yes if you also separated out everything from series and one of the sensors showed open when tested, yes, that would indeed be the issue. (I thought you just tested at the sensor end, apologies for the confusion) The wiring in between that sensor and the translator would be cut or otherwise damaged somewhere. Likely a clean cut since the resistance shows as it does when infinite.
You could rewire the other sensors back into series and replace just that sensor with a wireless one. That would be the easiest and most cost effective.