Hello,
I’m planning for a Concord 4 panel, which has a single zone for 2-wire smokes. With an 8Z input Snapcard, I can get two more 2-wire zones. I’m not sure if I can add more than one Snapcard, and I might want a design whereby each smoke is on its own zone. I need to have six smokes, though I guess I could get by with some of them being wireless ones.
I could also go with 4-wire smokes and have one zone per smoke for all of the smokes that I might need with enough SuperBus input modules. With this approach, I think I would want to employ the Polarity Reversal Module which “Enables Any Control Panel to Trip All ESL Sounder Smoke Detectors On a Loop When Alarm is Detected”, and being able to do this might be a sole reason for choosing multiple 4-wire zones over multiple 2-wire zones, if this module isn’t a good idea for multiple 2-wire zones.
I’m wondering how alarm.com remote functionality might influence my design choices, as while I have friends around there who can ‘help out’, it could take me days to get to the house.
If a smoke triggers a false alarm, I’d like to be certain which unit it was and be able to temporarily disable it until I’m able to get it replaced by somebody or get there to replace it myself.
If each smoke is on its own zone, would I be able to do that remotely with alarm.com?
I have seen that some smoke detectors are labeled as being “addressable”, so I imagine there’s a remote possibility of discovering, probably in the logs, which unit triggered the alarm when there are multiple units in series on a single zone, but I’m expecting that I would not be able to isolate and disable such a device by address, is this correct?
I’m also wondering about how alarm.com does the power cycle necessary to reset the smoke detectors.
thanks!
Bill
If each smoke is on its own zone, would I be able to do that remotely with alarm.com?
This seems to be the main point of concern, but no, you cannot disable a smoke detector remotely. You cannot bypass smoke detectors remotely or locally, short of removing them from programming. Quite simply this may be against code and would be extremely dangerous if these smoke detectors are used for compliance.
I have seen that some smoke detectors are labeled as being “addressable”, so I imagine there’s a remote possibility of discovering, probably in the logs, which unit triggered the alarm when there are multiple units in series on a single zone, but I’m expecting that I would not be able to isolate and disable such a device by address, is this correct?
The panel itself must support addressable detectors, which is typically limited to commercial fire panels.
I’m also wondering about how alarm.com does the power cycle necessary to reset the smoke detectors.
thanks!
If you install a hardwired smoke that is latching, I believe the reset must be done locally at the panel via disarm twice in a row. I do not believe remote commands can accomplish this, but I will verify. See the attached image from the Concord installation manual for 4-wire setup.
If you are looking for more fluid remote management, in this case you will want a detector which automatically resets when clear of smoke. This would include all wireless options.
Is this a new build, btw? In most cases new builds require 120V AC interconnect smokes by code now. You might look into the Interlogix Firefighter if that is the case.
Thank you Warren,
What is the standard operating procedure if the fire department shows up and determines it to be a false alarm (perhaps due to a malfunctioning smoke)?
Does suretyDIY use alarm.com functionality to turn off the alarm?
Is the entire system then out of service until it can be repaired?
This is an existing house, far from home, and I’m looking into all opportunities for remote diagnostics and control. I have friends a half hour away, and will also have to contract with a ‘boots on the ground’ security company, but every time that they or the police/fire have to roll, it’s going to cost me. I’m willing to cut and patch plaster for wiring in order to get better reliability. It would also cost me a lot of money and time just to replace a wireless unit’s battery at an inopportune time.
What is the standard operating procedure if the fire department shows up and determines it to be a false alarm (perhaps due to a malfunctioning smoke)?
Does suretyDIY use alarm.com functionality to turn off the alarm?
Is the entire system then out of service until it can be repaired?
Management of the user alarm system, arming/disarming is the responsibility of the end user. Operators do not have access to make changes to your system.
Any alarm signal from the detectors would result in notifications sent to the contact methods you’ve set up in Alarm.com, as well as calls from operators if central station monitoring is included in your subscription. Operators can contact a chosen guard service.
You would have access to disarm the alarm system remotely through Alarm.com to end the alarm condition and silence the siren, however to reset latching hardwired smoke detectors on the Concord 4, a second disarm (1, code) must be performed at the keypad.
Response steps to monitored smoke detector alarms assumes on-site inspection must happen. The best solution in this case, if you are going to contract local guards to the location, is to provide the guard company instructions if a fire alarm occurs to perform the reset.
Thank you very much Jason,
Just so I’m sure,
if I have a malfunctioning smoke detector on its own zone, and a guard company goes out because of a fire call. All they can do is reset the whole system and hope it doesn’t malfunction again before I can get a repair service call (or get on a plane with a replacement unit myself), and if it continues to malfunction, then leave the entire system unguarded until I can get a repair service call? There is no way for me to take that zone offline so that at least the rest of my system is working, until I can get a repair service call?
thanks!
Bill
This is an existing house, far from home, and I’m looking into all opportunities for remote diagnostics and control.
Unfortunately there is no real way to avoid the need for local maintenance of life safety devices. There are few opportunities for deviation from strict fire code.
All this said, keep in mind that this is based on the presumption a rare event will occur. You shouldn’t be experiencing smoke detector false alarms without obvious cause.
Will the location be unoccupied completely for stretches? Cooking is the most common false alarm cause.
if I have a malfunctioning smoke detector on its own zone, and a guard company goes out because of a fire call. All they can do is reset the whole system and hope it doesn’t malfunction again before I can get a repair service call (or get on a plane with a replacement unit myself), and if it continues to malfunction, then leave the entire system unguarded until I can get a repair service call?
To clarify, per Concord instructions, you would want to wire smoke detectors on Zone 8. Terminal 24 (Zone 8) provides the power interrupt for resetting the detector.
We do have the ability to assist with remote deletion of a device if it is causing trouble and you are unable to fix/remove, however that flexibility simply does not extend to smoke detectors installed for code compliance.
In the rare case that you would have a malfunctioning smoke detector consistently tripping the alarm, it would require maintenance.
and if it continues to malfunction, then leave the entire system unguarded until I can get a repair service call?
A smoke detector does not require the system to be armed to be active, and also one alarm signal does not preclude any further alarm signals. If you arm your system away and an alarm occurs, it is still in an armed state and further sensor trips will cause additional alarm signals whenever the sensors are tripped. These signals are forwarded to Alarm.com and the central station as normal.
If you have repeated trouble with a single zone and you have 24/7 monitoring, that zone can temporarily be placed on test mode with the central station, so operators do not act on alarms from that zone. This would not change how it behaves at the panel, but would reduce nuisance calls until resolved.
Thank you Jason, this is all very helpful.
(by “unguarded” above, I meant unprotected against smoke detection.)
If the fire department gets sent to the house because of a nuisance alarm and we’re days away, it sounds like I’ll need a friend or security service at the house to enter a code on the panel to reset any offending smoke detectors that are not designed to reset themselves. If the problem is a faulty smoke detector (or maybe it’s dust or spiders and can’t be cleared by vacuum or blowing out), then the alarm may retrigger, which will hopefully happen while someone is still there to again enter a code on the panel. I speak from experience because my in-laws’ smokes started firing in the middle of the night and I was somehow able to get them to stop until I had returned home, when they went off again
If this happens in the middle of the night or on a holiday, then it might be a while before I can get a technician there. In the meantime, with all smokes on a single zone, the whole zone would have to be disabled, ignored, or put into test mode, until I can get a technician to fix/replace. If we can disable, ignore or put into test mode, a zone of multiple smokes, then we must be able to do the same for a zone containing a single, offending smoke, no?
If I went with 4-wire smokes, each on their own zone, could I not continue to have smoke detection protection from the remaining devices if the problematic device’s zone is disabled, ignored, or put into test mode? (BTW, I will have a good number more smoke detectors than required by code, thanks to a 2:00am fire at my last house)
I am also partial to having each smoke on its own zone because there may be other people present, but perhaps not someone who can reliably note the state of LEDs when a nuisance alarm occurs. I would very much want to know which unit caused the alert, and I’m guessing the only way to do that is with separate zones.
thanks!
Bill
If I went with 4-wire smokes, each on their own zone, could I not continue to have smoke detection protection from the remaining devices if the problematic device’s zone is disabled, ignored, or put into test mode? (BTW, I will have a good number more smoke detectors than required by code, thanks to a 2:00am fire at my last house)
Yes, my apologies. My point was there was only zone 8 which can cut power and reset the smoke detector circuit, which would limit zones, but I did forget that you can program the outputs for smoke power and reset. The actual output programming code is 01500. That will provide the output terminals with smoke 12vdc power and will reset them by momentary power removal. (by the same reset process, disarm twice on keypad.)
So, yes you could set the smoke detectors as their own zones. This would allow you to place one on test mode with the central station and not affect the rest.
Bypass would still not be possible locally or remotely.
