Yes, you should be able to do that, though you would probably want a backup battery, and probably an enclosure for it if you use the battery. The convenience may outweigh the cost, of course that is up to you to decide, but you should be able to get it set up that way.
Thanks, Jason.
OK, so I finally have everything done. I have the grinder pump (and associated float control switch) brought into an HDSS named “Grinder Pump”. This brought it in as a light switch. I disabled Remote Commands, so that it is left on (having this get accidentally turned off be would be really bad). This seems to be working fine.
I then wired in the Normally Open float alarm switch into a Qolsys QS-7120-840 as a Normally Open contact, wiring in a 3.3k Ohm resistor in parallel. When I learned the zone into the panel, I had any number of options, so a brought it in as a Group 38 non-Qolsys water sensor. I named this “Grinder Pump Alarm”.
With functional testing, I see that Grinder Pump Alarm is Inactive (Dry) under normal conditions - perfect. However, when I unplug the grinder pump and then raise the water level in the basin to alarm conditions (causing the float alarm switch to close), rather than read as Active (Wet), it merely shows a Tamper event. Then, when I plug the grinder pump back in and lower the water level in the basin back to normal conditions, I get an End of Tamper.
Are there some back-end adjustments needed for the switch’s closure to drive Active/Wet conditions, rather than Tamper? If not, is something further needed from my end?
Can we proceed with the back-end configuration needed to set up the ADC Sump Pump functionality, based on “Grinder Pump” and “Grinder Pump Alarm”? Thanks!
There’s been some additional odd behavior with this setup. When setting this up and performing functional testing described in my post immediately above, I had tripped the contact at 2:44 PM (which caused the Tamper), and then reset things back to normal at 3:04 PM (which caused the End of Tamper). Since that time I have not played with it any further, and no water has entered the basin.
Suddenly, starting at 5:01 PM, this contact triggered a Pending Alarm. I silenced it, went and checked the basin, and (as expected) found it to be empty (and the float switch open). Wasn’t sure what to think of this…
Then, at 6:01 PM, the same thing happened. Basin still empty. At 7:01 PM, I got another Pending Alarm for the same thing. I had placed the system on test mode for the next week, until I can get things finalized, but this Pending Alarm business every hour on the hour is a whole new wrinkle, and I have no clue what is triggering it.
At this point, I completely powered down the Qolsys QS-7120-840 hardwire translator and avoid further false alarms until we can understand what’s going on. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
It sounds like the sensor is reporting during its supervisory interval, and the status is tamper alarm each time due to the zone type. Triggering the sensor should not cause a tamper.
This is almost certainly a resistance problem.
I then wired in the Normally Open float alarm switch into a Qolsys QS-7120-840 as a Normally Open contact, wiring in a 3.3k Ohm resistor in parallel. When I learned the zone into the panel, I had any number of options, so a brought it in as a Group 38 non-Qolsys water sensor. I named this “Grinder Pump Alarm”.
Is this a new Hardwire 8?
On newer Hardwire 16-F units, Qolsys changed the default behavior of the circuits with regard to resistance. Instead of by default needing to learn in each zone with any resistor between 1-10kohm, it now just looks for 4.7kohm resistance.
Double check the manual that came with the Hardwire 8. Does it indicate the resistance options for the panel?
I bought it new-in-box off of eBay, but I gather it may not be as full-featured as some other models, as I just noticed that this one does not support S-line, like the Qolsys QS-7130-840. If I compare all the latest online manuals (including the 16-F), I see that only the 16-F mentions 4.7k Ohm resistors:
The manual I received with the unit matches the first link exactly.
The only other “odd” thing I can recall in hindsight is that when I learned it in, I did so starting with the switch Closed (it is an N/O contact). Would the state of the contact prior to toggling it when learning it in have any bearing at all? If not, I suppose I can unenroll and try to learn it in again tonight using a 4.7 kOhm resistor while starting off in an Opened state (just to cover both possible basis).
We do not stock the Hardwire 8 currently so I don’t have one to compare on hand, but the pdf for the 8 quick guide linked above is from a 2017 revision. Hopefully it is the most up to date, but just in case, double check the quick guide that came with yours to verify whether it mentions 4.7k resistors.
The only other “odd” thing I can recall in hindsight is that when I learned it in, I did so starting with the switch Closed (it is an N/O contact). Would the state of the contact prior to toggling it when learning it in have any bearing at all?
That would be a problem I believe. Since the Hardwire measures the expected resistance values and must learn in a zone by activating it normally, when activating a NO zone you would need to have it in its rest state, open, then close it to learn it in.
You would need to delete that zone from the panel and reset the memory on the Hardwire 8. Relearn that zone as it would normally activate and you should be good to go.
We can then make any necessary dealer settings adjustments.
So, I checked the quick guide that came with Hardwire 8 wireless translater, and it’s actually even older - from 2015. There was no mention of the 4.7k Ohm resistor, or the UL resistor mode. However, interestingly, the Processor LED blinks at the rate of 8x/sec - just as described for the Hardwire 16-F working in the default/UL resistor mode (as opposed to 1x/sec for the normal 1k-10k Ohm EOL resistor mode).
At any rate, I proceeded as follows:
1.) Unenrolled the sensor
2.) Removed the original 3.3k Ohm resistor and replaced it with a 4.7k Ohm resistor (wired in parallel)
3.) Performed a memory reset on the Hardware 8
4.) Ensured that the N/O float switch was Opened
5.) Learned the sensor into that zone by filling the basin and causing the N/O float switch to Close
Afterwards, the behavior on the Hardware 8 seems consistently normal. The zone LED is always out when the N/O float switch is Open, and lit solid when the N/O float switch is Closed (before the LED would blink and indicate Tamper when Closed). No indications of Tamper at all.
I learned it in as a Water sensor | Other Flood, as I did yesterday. Oddly, despite the Hardware 8’s zone LED indicating properly, general indications on the panel and in the ADC app did not appear to reflect any changes.
Specifically, while N/O float switch is OPEN (normal), I get the following indications:
-Zone LED: Not lit
-ADC App: Indicates “Dry”
-Panel | Home: Closed/Inactive icon
-Panel | Sensor Status: Normal
While N/O float switch is CLOSED (alarm condition), I get the following indications:
-Zone LED: Lit
-ADC App: Indicates “Dry”
-Panel | Home: Closed/Inactive icon
-Panel | Sensor Status: Normal
The panel alarms upon transition, either from opened to closed, or closed to open, which I wouldn’t think is normal.
I haven’t seen any further Tamper alarms. However, at 7:30pm I did get a false flood alarm (basin was dry, and I wasn’t even home). I changed the sensor type from Water | Other Flood to Water | IQ. I haven’t retested yet in this configuration, but I did not get a subsequent alarm at 8:30pm, nor even at 9:30pm. I haven’t functionally tested this configuration yet, and am powering it down the night, just in case of false alarms.
I wonder if the alarm and software indication inconsistencies that I’m currently seeing might just be due to incorrect sensor type configuration that needed to be adjusted (either on my end, or Surety’s end…?). Or perhaps what I have now is correct and merely needs to be retested for confirmation. Please let me know what you think, and next steps. Current sensor’s name is “Grinder Pump Basin”.
Just to verify, did you want to keep it as an alarm-generating sensor type or did you want to set it as a non-reporting type?
If you program it as a flood sensor at the panel, it will generate aux alarms.
If you program it as a door sensor under Sensor Group 25, it will only be used for notifications (no alarms will occur locally), and we can manually select it as a water sensor for you in Alarm.com, allowing you to use the ADC water management features with it.
Either way is fine, but if you do use sensor group 25 we would need to designate it as a water sensor manually.
If you leave it as a flood sensor then that is not needed.
To function as a flood sensor correctly, it sounds like you now have it set to the correct programming values. It should be IQ water, and it should activate an aux alarm when the zone closes, then restore when opened again.
Yes, I’d like to keep it as alarm-generating - at least for now. Since I neglected to get a Hardwire model that performs supervisory functions (should’ve gone with the 16-F!), in the future, I may also add a more traditional water sensor further up in the basin, for extra peace of mind (and then just configure that to report instead).
I powered everything up a couple hours ago and no more false alarms. After seeing your confirmation that I should be using IQ Water, I repeated functional testing. This went better. This time, it only generated an alarm upon closing the contact (did not also generate an alarm upon re-opening the contact/returning to normal conditions).
As before, the zone LED lit upon closure and went out upon opening. The ADC app reporting the sensor in alarm, as expected.
The only things that seemed unusual were panel indications - this continued to show Closed/Inactive icon on the Home screen, and Sensor Status reported Normal. However, this was after I silenced and acknowledged the alarm, but before I re-opened the contact. Just want to confirm that this is expected behavior…? If it is, then let’s please proceed with setting up the sump pump water management feature.
Alright, yes that sounds like it is functioning as I think it should be expected. I believe the IQ Panel will restore the status of the aux alarm sensor after acknowledging the alarm.
We’ve set up the sump pump function for you and you should now be able to view the Sump Pump card from the home page of Alarm.com.
Thanks, Jason, everything looks great! Thank you for all your help with this!!
with the new IQ2 firwmare release to 2.5, it states “Added support for Sump Pump integration via Alarm.com when the Water Management service plan is enabled”. Wondering what this entails. Could the end-user now configure the water sensor, etc.?
That’s my guess although I am unable to test. It was compatible before 2.5.0 but had to be enabled on the back end by the dealer.
Once I have tracked down more information about it, I will follow up.
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I just came to post this same thing. I installed 2.5. Does this mean that Sump Pump monitoring should now show as a card on the IQ2 panel?
I’m still awaiting confirmation from Qolsys. Its entirely possible although I do not see a page configuration option for it in Installer Settings, which other cards have. I’ll keep you posted.
Jason, a couple quick questions pertaining to the back-end configurations you made for the sump pump monitoring:
- I see that with firmware 2.5.0, that the associated water sensor (float switch contact wired to the Hardware 8 board) can now be reconfigured at the panel between Reporting (Sensor Group 38) and Non-reporting (Sensor Group 25).
- I know that there has always been an option to rename sensors at the panel and/or in ADC.
I expect that this back-end association is based on some unique identifier, and not simply by name (such that renaming would break the association in a manner that I may not be able to see without testing). Just wanted to confirm that changing either of these configurations from my end would be OK to do and not break any of the back-end configuration you implemented…?
If you are going to change the group from 38 to 25, please let us know as we will have to adjust settings on the back end for that to work properly.
Just changing the name however, should have no impact.
The listing of Sump Pump monitoring in the release notes in 2.5.0 refers to the use of a water sensor for Sump Pump monitoring using Group 25 (non-reporting). This was not possible prior to 2.5.0.
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Hi, I swapped over to a new panel today (IQ2 to IQ2+). Your team restored backup, I reinstalled all my zwave devices, including the Energy Monitoring Switch.
Could you please setup the Sump Pump Monitoring the same as you did last time. Thanks!
Happy to. Commands to configure the Sump pump have been sent. The process should take a few minutes to complete.