if this one particular sensor which is most frequently not being sensed at the panel is indeed the issue, could that explain the intermittent, albeit less frequent, malfunctioning of other sensors in the same zone?
Possibly, the whole circuit would be affected. The issue could be with the sensor itself, it could be wiring, corrosion, it is difficult to say without examining the sensor.
or did you mean remove it from series at the box?
If it cannot be removed physically and checked, yes you could remove it from the circuit if they are wired in series at the box. Since it is malfunctioning already and not always opening/closing you may have a little trouble identifying with a multimeter in tests, but that would be how you would need to single it out.
Are you able to identify all the wires on that circuit?
It is not as likely, but one thing that is easy that you might try first just to rule it out is temporarily swap the wires for zone 8 on the RE108 with those of a working zone. Essentially move zone 8 to a different pair of inputs and the working zone to Zone 8 inputs. This would just be to test whether the issue could be at the RE108 end.
It’s not easy, but I can identify all the wires at the box. However, to remove a sensor from the series at the box would require cutting wires and re-splicing, as the splices are not reversible. Or is there another way to test? What did you mean by testing with a multimeter?
Can a sensor be removed from the zone at the sensor location?
It would be easiest to physically remove the sensor itself, then twist the wires together to just close the circuit at that spot, letting you test the rest of the sensors on that zone to see if only the one most troublesome sensor is causing the issue. This would also let you check for corrosion or damage on the wire at the sensor end.
If you cannot do that, you would need to isolate all of the sensor wires where they are wired in series, cut them all, use a multimeter to test resistance (ohms) between the wire pairs, and one by one open the windows on that zone and match them to the now isolated wires. Start out with all windows closed, measure between one pair of wires and one by one open and close windows until the resistance changes. This will tell you which window corresponds to which wire. When you have the problem window wires identified, you can wire the rest back in series and test the zone without the problem sensor to determine if that one is the primary cause.
Those steps are if you haven’t already identified which individual pair of conductors run to the possible problem sensor. If the sensor wires are labeled for the individual sensor locations at the box you wouldn’t have so much trial and error, but that is rare.
The steps also assume the windows were wired in series at the panel location, not in the wall. There are two ways they could be run: two conductors for each sensor run to the sensor locations directly, and at the RE108 end of the cables the wires are connected in series, or only two conductors total are running to the RE108 end for that zone, and the windows were pre-wired in series in the wall. This is less common.
fortunately for me, all the wires are labeled where they come out of the wall at the box specifying which sensor they come from.
i believe the sensors are wired in series at the box, based on the yellow splicing caps i see (and can be seen in the photo), unless i’m missing something.
can you tell what type of sensor it is from the photo? if it is a single faulty sensor, do you recommend replacing it with something similar? or replace with a wireless sensor?
It would be easiest to physically remove the sensor itself, then twist the wires together to just close the circuit at that spot
i assume this would be done on the sensor implanted on the window frame side, and not on the sensor on the moveable window side?
i believe the sensors are wired in series at the box, based on the yellow splicing caps i see (and can be seen in the photo), unless i’m missing something
Yep, I assumed they would be based on the number of wire connectors.
i assume this would be done on the sensor implanted on the window frame side, and not on the sensor on the moveable window side?
The Sensor would be in the frame. The window would hold the magnet.
can you tell what type of sensor it is from the photo? if it is a single faulty sensor, do you recommend replacing it with something similar? or replace with a wireless sensor?
No, wired sensors have very little variation so a recessed magnetic contact sensor in the same dimensions as the one you remove would be fine. As long as the rest of the circuit works fine I would replace the wired sensor with another wired one.
ok, i believe the problem was related to a faulty sensor, as the zone seems to function properly once i removed that sensor put the wires together. in the process of replacing that sensor.
now, another issue has come up, in a different zone: after having all the windows in the zone open for several hours (i’m not sure if the open duration makes any difference), i closed all the windows in the zone. the panel recognized all as being closed, green, ready to arm. (all the windows chimed appropriately when they were opened several hours prior). i armed the system away, and left the house. several minutes later, the zone alarmed, saying it had been opened, even though it hadn’t. this false alarming has happened a couple times.
Are these window sensors recessed or surface mount? The first thing I would check is the magnet alignment with the sensors. If one or more of the magnets are misaligned or spaced too far apart, this can lead to intermittent open signals.
I will check the alignments. This system has been here for some years and was functioning for previous owners–Are they prone to move out of alignment over time?
Some are surface mount and some are recessed–why would the original installers have used a combination? The windows are all of the same type.
Are they prone to move out of alignment over time?
Not on their own of course, but often a window hasn’t been opened in years, and if magnets are glued or taped in place they may loosen over time. Opening and testing may have physically affected one. It is something to look into and should be quick.
This system has been here for some years and was functioning for previous owners
Given the peculiarities of the install found so far, and the malfunctioning hardwired sensor, I would not assume the system functioned flawlessly for the prior owners. I never want to assume that issues were ignored, but it does happen, and it is a big reason why testing is important, unfortunately.
Some are surface mount and some are recessed–why would the original installers have used a combination? The windows are all of the same type.
I could not say for certain why there would be a mix. I would also expect uniformity for the most part. Perhaps they had trouble accessing certain windows, or the zones were installed at different times, or some sensors were replaced with a different type of sensor. Some of the sensors may have been there longer than others as well, from an older installation.
For sensors I need to replace is it better to use recessed vs surface mount or vice versa? I just replace with the same type as existing? What are the pros/cons of the different types?
I would replace with the same type of sensor that is currently installed. They perform the same task the same way. Recessed sensors obviously least affect the window aesthetics, but going from surface to recessed and manipulating the wire is very difficult in most cases.
I replaced what appeared to be the faulty sensor and that system–all zones–seems to be functioning correctly at this point.
Is there a recommendation for testing all sensors at some particular interval? Or wait until there’s an apparent malfunction?
Also, the contact sensors have been sealed with silicone, and on the surface contacts the wires leading to the drilled holes have been covered with silicone. Much of the silicone is fraying/weathered. Is silicone still recommended and should I reapply where it’s fraying?
Is there a recommendation for testing all sensors at some particular interval? Or wait until there’s an apparent malfunction?
Anytime you set up a new sensor or new system, test all new devices. At least once a year I would recommend running through the whole system and making sure that all sensors are functional.
Most errors can be caught by supervision/low battery alerts, etc.
Also, the contact sensors have been sealed with silicone, and on the surface contacts the wires leading to the drilled holes have been covered with silicone. Much of the silicone is fraying/weathered. Is silicone still recommended and should I reapply where it’s fraying?
That’s not really common, but may have been added if the original user liked to leave the windows open a lot to keep possible moisture away from the wires. It won’t have a functional impact either way, except to shield the wire from corrosion.
further usage has revealed two intermittent malfunctions. while the overwhelming majority of the time the system works correctly, occasionally a window or door that was opened is closed but does not register as closed at the panel. re-opening and closing usually gets the panel to recognize the sensor as closed. this occasional phenomenon affects multiple sensors in multiple zones. because it does not seem to be happening that frequently, it’s difficult to tell how many sensors this is affecting. is this problem more likely due to individual faulty sensors, or more likely due to a system-wide issue, like maybe the panel or one of the translators?
the second issue is a false alarm, whereby sometimes when i arm the panel away, a minute or two after leaving, a motion sensor alarms. one of the motion sensors is in view of the entry door, so i assume i likely activate the sensor when leaving, but, again, this happens only occasionally. what would be the explanation for this?
occasionally a window or door that was opened is closed but does not register as closed at the panel. re-opening and closing usually gets the panel to recognize the sensor as closed. this occasional phenomenon affects multiple sensors in multiple zones.
Given the description this is very likely not an issue with all the individual sensors. If I recall correctly you have a wired-to wireless translator inside the metal can right? Try opening the old metal panel cover and leaving it open for an extended period. Do you notice fewer cases of the failed close signal happening with the old panel cover off?
the second issue is a false alarm, whereby sometimes when i arm the panel away, a minute or two after leaving, a motion sensor alarms. one of the motion sensors is in view of the entry door, so i assume i likely activate the sensor when leaving, but, again, this happens only occasionally. what would be the explanation for this?
What is the model number on the wired motion detector? How many motion detectors are on the circuit?
In general, the some common PIR false alarm causes:
Pets
Nearby Air Vents
Direct sunlight on the detector lens
However, this may be a symptom of the the first issue. Did you replace all the resistors on the zones or just the one in prior troubleshooting?
Yes the re 108 is inside the can, however it is a wired to GE wireless translator. The GE to 2gig translator RE224GT is mounted on the wall outside the can.
There are two motion detectors wired in series in a single zone. I don’t know the model as there are no markings, but I’ve attached a photo below.
I don’t believe any of the common PIR false alarm causes applies in my situation.
Yes the re 108 is inside the can, however it is a wired to GE wireless translator. The GE to 2gig translator RE224GT is mounted on the wall outside the can.
The RE108 is a wired sensor to wireless GE signal translator.
The RE224GT translates wireless signals from GE to 2GIG. It does not accept wired data input, just power.
The suggestion is to test and make sure the metal enclosure is not actually hampering the transmission of the GE wireless signal. If you remove the enclosure’s cover, you should see fewer, if any occurrences of the sensors not reporting closed, if that is a cause.
I don’t know the model as there are no markings, but I’ve attached a photo below.
You would need to pop open the motion detector to check labels on any stickers inside.
I don’t believe any of the common PIR false alarm causes applies in my situation.
Did you replace all resistors during troubleshooting, or just the one zone being worked on previously?
i have had the cover off the box, as suggested. i had another false alarm of the motion sensor. as usual, it occurred doubt a minute or two after arming away and leaving the premises. there are two powered PIR sensors in the zone.