An attempt to understand system weaknesses

Ok, so let’s see if I get this:
If someone kicks in a door while my Qolsys system is armed Away, the door sensor thinks the door was simply opened since I have no glass break or noise detectors. So the countdown begins. Meanwhile, ADC has already received (hopefully) a notification that someone should be disarming the system very soon. If they never receive this signal, for example if the culprit immediately spots the panel and destroys it…then they will call me first? Or will they immediately notify police dept? In addition to that, if the nice culprit fella immediately grabs all of my image sensors off the wall and throws them to the ground, then I won’t capture any images at all because technically the alarm has not actually went into alarm status yet because it’s still counting down? UNLESS I have image triggering setup to take snapshots of first motion after disarm? But won’t that not work either because the alarm has not been disarmed yet? What is the best way to cover this loophole? In addition, if images are taken of the intruder, are they uploaded to the cloud or will they be destroyed along with the panel? I suppose this is corrected by setting up first motion snapshots after entry? Or is this possible? Thanks for the help.

The image sensor is designed to function as a PIR motion, and capture the motion event that triggers it.

What you want it for should instead be utilizing IP infrared cameras.

OR you can do it that way if you set Image sensors to interior follower, and arm panel with “no entry delay”, or program doors as “perimeter”, and simply use keyfobs/mobile devices to disarm prior to entry.

The Image Sensors if grabbed, would capture event and immediately alarm as they are gyroscope equipped for tamper.

Images captured are uploaded to cloud for alarm events, or armed away, motion detection events.

Notifications are per whatever You set them up for. ONLY life safety events (e.g., fire), are dispatch first then call.

This is how I do it:

Use combination cams and IS devices (IS should be used in locations in lieu of PIR motions). The benefit is the IS’ will still capture even if internet and power is lost (backup cam functionality)

Use a VMD IP camera near any delay entry doors (e.g., front, interior garage), or set doors near IS as perimeter (e.g., back door), OR set only one door as delay entry (preferable covered by cam, the cam’s will record during delay entry events) Program IS as interior follower.

Do not install panel where it can be reached without the event being captured. Strategically place multiple IS’ throughout home.

My panel itself is camera covered, and you have to go through areas protected by Image sensors and cams to even get to it.

Rive thank you for the detailed response. You obviously know your stuff. I’ve actually learned a lot from reading your other posts on here. I was unaware that I could actually have some entry doors alarm instantly and just have 1 on entry delay. This is the route I will probably go. We use the interior garage door the majority of the time, and I could have a short 30 second or less entry delay and disarm most of the time remotely. I do have 3 image sensors installed, and right now they are set on 17-delay entry motion. I am in the process of sending back an ADC V520ir that kept disconnecting from my network. If and when I get a working unit, it will cover the main parts of the house as you described and I’ll set it up to record delay entry/disarm events as well as motion while armed away. I was unaware that the image sensors will take photos if they detect motion ‘during the entry delay’. That’s a great feature. I suppose I just have one more question: what exactly does “interior follower” mean and how does it differ from entry delay motion? Thanks for the input.

Or maybe I misunderstood. You did say that in order for my image sensors to be sure to capture someone busting up the panel during the entry delay period, I would need to set “no entry delay” and disarm remotely?

Selecting to disable Entry Delay during arming will cause all Entry/Exit doors to alarm immediately upon opening instead of their programmed delay. If you are habitual in the use of your mobile app, it is definitely the easiest way to ensure that alarm signals are sent immediately regardless of method of entry. It effectively turns all doors into Perimeter sensors.

Keeping your primary control panel protected and using secondary panels near the entrance of your home is also advised.

Your image sensors have a number of rules which can be set up. The Background Capture rule can provide an extra level of support, allowing you to capture images after periods of sensor inactivity even if you have forgotten to arm the system.

Do not install main panel at entries. Use secondarys, or keypads. Install main panel center of home.

what exactly does “interior follower” mean and how does it differ from entry delay motion? Thanks for the input.

I assume the cross platform PIRs work the same regardless of different panel programming configurations(2GIG vs Qolsys) as “interior follower” versus “delay”.

you should never program a PIR motion/Image Sensor with delay if you have door/window perimeter sensors installed. If you program a PIR with delay this may cause your motion to not promptly detect motion events or activate in a timely manor

Interior follower zones:
If motion is detected, PIR immediately alarms (unless a delay entry sensor is first activated) these are programmed as “interior” sensors that “follow” after any delay period BUT only if it initiated first, if not, they alarm instantly. Program all PIR sensors as interior follower if you have door/window perimeter sensors.

Motion with delay zones:
These are used as delay entry sensors for those without door/window sensors.

Say for example, you have a PIR motion/IS and lack perimeter or delay entry sensors, this sensor type will detect the motion and then go into a countdown/delay.

This would be ideal if say you had it near entry and wanted time to disarm before the alarms activated.

IMO, Gb’s and PIR’s should not be used as a home’s primary line of defense. The best protection is layers upon layers, and backups to primaries

It should be like this:

1.Life safety photo smoke/heat, CO (every floor level/stairs, and bedroom areas)
2. Perimeter (all ground level, first and second floor doors and windows)
3.interior follower PIR motion/Image Sensors (all levels) breaks*

More and more jurisdictions will not respond to an unverified burglar alarm event, so it is a must to also have visual verification of an event (cams or image sensors). They will respond to all emergency alarm events (duress, fire, etc).

  • the best type of glass breaks are perimeter sensors with combo zone shocks, but personally if you have interior follow PIR’s, I think GB’s are superfluous (if PIR’s are properly installed for optimal coverage for like sliding glass doors, window walls, landing areas of stair cases. NEVER POSITION a PIR so it is looking directly at windows/glass, never install over stairs, and be sure to install it so an intruder must cross the lense view on an angle…corner mounting works very well).

Placing and testing motion:

Qolsys Sensor Group 17 is Instant Alarm on Away arming (as a follower).

You are very correct about group 17. My mistake. Thank you guys for the great info. It all seems so complicated to a newbie, but it also needs to be complicated in order to have the kind of flexibility these systems offer. I now understand that.

My hat is off to rive for working “superfluous” into a post. Lol. If I could only find my dictionary…

means…unnecessary, excessive.

“Your image sensors have a number of rules which can be set up. The Background Capture rule can provide an extra level of support, allowing you to capture images after periods of sensor inactivity even if you have forgotten to arm the system.”

Could you elaborate on how this would help me capture images of someone destroying my control panel while the system is armed Away? I still do not understand how I would go about capturing any images at all DURING THE COUNTDOWN of an entry delay period while someone is in the process of destroying the main panel. Am I correct that the only way to obtain images during a countdown period is with a video camera that is succeltible to wifi/power cable being cut? Thanks in advance.

If you set the Image Sensor as “no response” zone type (I assume Qolsys has that option) you can use it to capture motion events even during delay entry I suspect… BUT the IS will no longer be an alarm initiating device. It will function like a IR VMD cam.

To be more specific about what I’m not comprehending: let’s say I have “background capture” turned on. Also, let’s say I have an image sensor near the main control panel. So from what I understand…if there is no activity for an hour and then that IS detects motion, it’s going to generate “background capture” images of that motion event. But this is redundant if the system is Armed Away because it would capture those images upon detecting that same motion anyway and upload them automatically? Correct? So is background capture essentially unnecessary during an Armed Away state? Or…would the image sensor generate photos during the entry delay period because of the background capture rule? But these same images are NOT uploaded automatically and would be destroyed along with the panel? Thanks for any help for a slow learner. What’s very scary is that I’m one of the smarter people I know. Maybe that says a lot about the company I keep:)

I saw something about an accelerometer built into the control panel. Will the panel initiate an immediate alarm during countdown if the panel is ripped off the wall?

If the Qolsys is anything like the 2GIG it probably has a tamper, and if that is engaged by ripping panel off wall it will sound alarm if armed, for panel crash and smash see:

As for the Image sensor capture during delay entry and background activity alerts, I am going to test it for you… hold on

Your image sensor will be set to take images on motion when the panel is armed away. These are available on demand. Basically, if you had them auto-upload you would run through image uploads way too quickly, so it is instead stored on the Image sensor. In the event of a crash and smash, you are right in that the on demand image would be unavailable normally. ADC however can retrieve these images manually. The image sensor should be powered down quickly and sent in.

The interior follower IS will not capture during a armed away delay entry event (at least on 2GIG). I have not yet tested the background 1 hour activity alert to see if it will capture during an away delay event, but I doubt it.

Will test it shortly (after an hour)

The IS will not capture during a armed away delay entry event

You have two images available to upload on demand. Check the “Upload Images” page.

Yep…I stand corrected. the IS did capture a motion event during away entry delay.

I can see the issue though, that it did not upload image automatically. If the IS was destroyed or stolen the image may be unrecoverable.

Great info here guys. And thank you rive for taking the time to actually test it out. There’s no substitute for real world testing. I’m sorry for all my questions. I’m the type of person who does not like feeling ignorant about a system so I try to know all about it.