possible bug in ADC empower tstat settings

Possible bug

In the alarm.com tstat empower settings you can only set fan “circulate” setting when unit is OFF. It is not a selectable fan option in any other HVAC mode.

You cannot for example, set HEAT mode with fan on CIRCULATE and have the fan actually circulate.

So the bug is either:

1. When blower fan circulate is in use and system is OFF, setting the system to either HEAT or COOL or EMER should reset FAN mode to AUTO, but it doesn’t, and even though FAN mode shows “circulate” it doesn’t actually operate per “circulate” settings

2. FAN “circulate” should be a functional and selectable option under all modes, but it isnt.

I use circulate all the time. It is a optimal way to equalize cold and hot spots in the home. IMO it is a PITA that you actually have to shut off the system, in order to address hot and cold spots throughout home by circulating the air. This fan selection should be an functional option in all operating modes.

Perhaps if the “Fan Schedule rule” was actually remotely useable (but it isnt, as you can only select one run time period, per day, and you cannot create multiple fan schedule run rules). Most other fan schedules allow multiple run times per day.

Tstat “bug” non-operable FAN mode in HEAT mode:

I don’t even have this mode. It’s either on, off, or on with a timer.

I don’t even have this mode. It’s either on, off, or on with a timer.

When you turn Mode to OFF, do you not see “circulate” as an option under fan?

Not all of the expected features of the T2000 are available quite yet. We will notify Alarm.com and verify whether this is intentional at this time or an oversight.

We will notify Alarm.com and verify whether this is intentional at this time or an oversight.

Well if it is intentional, then the fan blower function is broken, and they should push out another update across the board to resolve it (which will most likely screw up everyone’s empower automation rules again I suspect)

Once you set fan to circulate, then if you turn on heat/emergency heat/cool mode at the tstat itself (or via app/website) fan selection becomes inoperable.

It is intentional that you cannot access circulate when the mode is on. Technically, circulate is always on when the mode is on and your Heat/AC is not cycled on. You will not be able to toggle it when the mode is on.

The only time you would need to manually turn on circulation is if you turn the mode off.

When blower fan circulate is in use and system is OFF, setting the system to either HEAT or COOL or EMER should reset FAN mode to AUTO, but it doesn’t, and even though FAN mode shows “circulate” it doesn’t actually operate per “circulate” settings

Does it operate as “Auto” mode in this circumstance? Are you saying the issue is it still shows “Circulate” on the tstat card, but the HVAC operates as you would otherwise expect?

The only time you would need to manually turn on circulation is if you turn the mode off.

That would be incorrect.

Running circulation will allow one to balance hot and cold spots throughout a home. It is basically the same as running the fan on timer 1hr, 3hr, etc) except for shorter durations (which would in my case be a run time for 2.5min every 10 min for a total run time of 15/min per hour).

It is retarded that you have to say turn off your heat (in cold weather) just to balance the air in circ mode, then turn heat back on. FYI, running the fan blower straight for hours on end in heat/cool mode is not ideal (tremendous waste of energy).

Technically, circulate is always on when the mode is on and your Heat/AC is not cycled on.

That is not what “auto” means. Auto means the tstat can call G as needed. Circulate is not always on when heat/cool mode is not running. Circulate is a customizable blower fan run mode that is determined per settings. Auto, optional always On, presetTimer On, and customizable Timer On (circulate).

The fan blower only runs when there is a call for G (fan) and that only occurs when there is a call for heat/cool via Y or W (unless the G fan is manually called independently. e.g., “turned ON”). If it is always running, even when system is not calling for heat/cool, and blower has not been manually turned on, that may indicate something is improperly wired and G is constantly energized. The blower fan should not be “always on” in a circulation mode.

Turn off your unit, enable circulate fan blower option, them go physically to tstat, and turn on Heat mode. You will then notice that fan is not on an auto blower setting, but is stuck on the customizable circulate (which becomes non-functional per configuration for blower circulation settings).

In a nutshell, if some dimwit determined that the unit must be turned off in order to enable and use blower fan in customizable circulation run control, then when said unit is then turned on, it should automatically switch back over to default “AUTO” for fan control… but this does not happen. (hence, the “bug” or glitch).

If the Blower Fan is not running per the Circulate advanced settings, then it would stand to reason that the tstat should not be reporting the Fan as being in “circulate mode” when Heat/Cool modes are turned ON (if it is not a supported function or feature in those operating modes).

The way it was explained to me earlier:

Mode = Off: circulate is optional fan control.
Mode = Heat, Cool: fan runs Auto (while heating/cooling engaged, fan runs concurrently), and circulate runs (I guess as an override) when heating/cooling is not engaged.

Thinking about it, no it doesn’t make the most sense. If the point of circulate is to even temps without having to use as much energy, somehow making it a mandatory setting when the mode is left on is questionable. Not to mention, since the mode is typically untouched for a long time in many homes, you would see circulation running all the time during periods of mild weather (unless you turn the mode off). I’m not seeing documentation for that in the Building 36 manual.

I suggest you try to replicate the issue. Turn off your unit, enable circulate fan option, them go to tstat, and turn on heat mode. You will then notice that fan is not on auto, but is stuck on circulate (which becomes non-functional per configuration for blower circulation settings).

Back to the question above, can you confirm that if the following is true; Mode = Off, Circulate = On, when you turn the mode to heat/cool your Thermostat actually continues to try to run in circulate fan mode rather than Auto fan mode? (as opposed to the Tstat running in Auto and the Alarm.com Tstat card incorrectly reporting circulate)

Basically want to verify is it broken function or broken status?

circulate runs (I guess as an override) when heating/cooling is not engaged.

Back to the question above, can you confirm that if the following is true; Mode = Off, Circulate = On, when you turn the mode to heat/cool your Thermostat actually continues to try to run in circulate fan mode rather than Auto fan mode? (as opposed to the Tstat running in Auto and the Alarm.com Tstat card incorrectly reporting circulate)

When Mode is off, circulation runs just like it is configured in advanced config.

Circulation does not at all run when Mode is set to Cool/Heat/Emer regardless if it is actually calling for heat/cool or not (The rest is up to ADC to figure out whether or not it is incorrectly reported on app/website, or locked in that mode on Tstat and inoperable and correctly reported)

Perhaps we are having a miscommunication?

It would appear so.

I think I misread your original post.

So the issue is Circulate is shown as the current fan cycle when it was selected during mode = off, and mode subsequently = heat/cool…

Once you set fan to circulate, then if you turn on heat/emergency heat/cool mode at the tstat itself (or via app/website) fan selection becomes inoperable.

…and you then cannot change the setting to the normally available options unless you turn the mode back off?

and you then cannot change the setting to the normally available options unless you turn the mode back off?

No, you can. I can log into alarm.com and manually set fan to “Auto”. I can also go to the 2GIG panel, access the tstat, and set Fan to “Manual”, then back to “Auto”, either of which will resolve it.

To clarify, fan selection per say, doesn’t become inoperable (you can select other fan options), what becomes inoperable is the selected fan mode (which stopped working).

The point is, you should NOT have to manually log into the website, or turn Fan to manual then back to auto in order to change a nonfunctional fan mode on the tstat, (and/or “fix” an incorrectly reported Fan mode notification… whichever the case may be) to one that is functional and works.

Ok, I misread your earlier points.

I will notify ADC. That should be an easy fix, I’d guess.

Hmm, getting different info now, which may be the reason for the original strange response from support. Empower support says that circulate is intended to be available in all modes in the future, and that if you set it to circulate while off, and set your mode back to Heat/Cool, it should remain in circulate fan mode.

if you set it to circulate while off, and set your mode back to Heat/Cool, it should remain in circulate fan mode

Yes you can, and it will remain in “circulate” fan mode, but it doesn’t operate the blower fan under circulation settings… it doesn’t work. Period.

Understood. I did not say it was working that way. I was informed it should.

The eventual intention is apparently circulate as an option functional in all modes. The lack of this feature was lamented in the original post.

I’ve updated Alarm.com with your feedback. It sounded like some work was currently being done to the thermostat service page.

I will follow up this week to check if they have implemented any updates. I got the impression it was a current project.

It will be awesome feature if and when it becomes functional. I for one will use it alot.

Something else you might want to suggest to them…

With all newer heatpumps equipped with Aux heat, the heatpumps are usually at least three times more efficient than the Aux… so why is staging Limited to only 60min?

I can run my heat pump (4kw) for three hours before I use as much power as the Aux heat coils (11kw) use running for one hour (combined heat pump and Aux @ 15kw). Having the staging delay kick in the Aux after one hour is inefficient and unnecessarily expensive.

The pump staging delay should be user configurable for at least 1-180 min.

This suggestion has been sent to Alarm.com as well. Feedback will be posted here.

You southerners and your heat pumps and swamp coolers. Lol

southerners

I think you may be mistaken. I am one hour from Washington DC, and less than 6 hours from Columbus Ohio. Where I live was Union territory in the Civil War. Winter temps here drop into single digits (actual, not wind chill).

Heatpumps with Aux heat are used in the northern areas of the US.